3 ms·

You have to admit, dressing up a giant pile of money to schools this way was an incredibly shrewd political move. Even now that the plan has been blocked, that

You have to admit, dressing up a giant pile of money to schools this way was an incredibly shrewd political move. Even now that the plan has been blocked, that won't reflect badly on the administration which made the plan, it will just focus anger towards conservatives and the SCOTUS. This was something with no political downside.

clairity 3y ago
that's an astute observation. i think the current administration designed this legislation for maximum airtime by trying to go all-in on debt forgiveness, without any conviction about whether it could actually withstand challenge. if they were interested in actually helping the disadvantaged, then there are plenty of workarounds, like forgiving the interest and fees on student loans rather than forgiving principal. this would be more impervious to the idea that the executive branch was trying to wholesale rewrite legislation, rather than tweaking it on the margin, which was part of the court's rationale in this case.
bavell 3y ago
What a joke, we just wasted 2 years on an empty promise that was doomed to fail from the start and now all the people who have been waiting and suffering are getting nothing. All we get now is a blame-game of finger-pointing instead of any solutions. We got teased and led on for years. There is no alternative plan to the one proposed, all eggs in one basket on such a monumentally important issue. What a great victory!
- rqtwteye 3y ago
  "All we get now is a blame-game of finger-pointing instead of any solutions. " That's how modern US politics works. They have given up on actually solving problems a long time ago. And people are stupid enough to buy into this nonsense.
  - EA-3167 3y ago
    Even a cursory study of human history reveals that this is how politics usually works, and always has. People are fundamentally the same as we've been for thousands of years, so the means to manipulate us are fundamentally similar.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > There is no alternative plan That doesn't seem to be accurate: a new debt relief regulatory effort was initiated today, plus a repayment “on ramp” that limits the impact of ending the pause, plus a new income-based time-limited repayment program that will have low income borrowers paying $0. (The last of which was, IIRC, announced in principal around the same time as the forgiveness program, but not finalized in detail.) https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/secretary-cardona-statement-supreme-court-ruling-biden-administrations-one-time-student-debt-relief-plan https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/secretary-cardona-sta... Regulatory notice on the first part is here: https://www2.ed.gov/policy/highered/reg/hearulemaking/2023/negregpublichearingannouncement.pdf https://www2.ed.gov/policy/highered/reg/hearulemaking/2023/n...
- EA-3167 3y ago
  Welcome to politics, empty promises to the gullible have been a mainstay for thousands of years.
- sanderjd 3y ago
  How have they been suffering, when loan payments have been paused this whole time?
robomartin 3y ago
> that won't reflect badly on the administration I will agree if we define the audience as “the masses”. If, on the other hand, we consider the subset of people who actually engage in critical thinking, things should be different. This was a political stunt to gain votes. And, as you seem to suggest, it will still be used as yet another us-vs-them wedge tool used to divide and polarize the population. What’s outrageous is that the cost of university education has been inflated precisely due to government involvement through guarantees. Everyone should be horrified that 17 year olds are agreeing to loans in the $150K to $300K range (and more). And sometimes this is for degrees that will never lead to high income jobs. I saw this piece a while back on this 32 year old with some kind of a sociology degree that cost her $250K. She was making $60K a year, with no real prospects to do significantly better. My guess is that a reasonable cost for a degree is in a range similar to the cost of cars. The idea being to be able to pay it off in 5 to 7 years at the average earning potential for the corresponding degree. That might mean $20K to $150K max. For example, a CS undergrad degree should probably be in the $20K to $50K range. The only way that happens is in a market where government isn’t in the student loan business.
- EA-3167 3y ago
  > I will agree if we define the audience as “the masses”. If, on the other hand, we consider the subset of people who actually engage in critical thinking, things should be different. To be clear, that's a tiny minority which rarely impacts the outcomes of elections, and elections are what matter to politicians.
  - robomartin 3y ago
    Yup, that’s true.
hindsightbias 3y ago
Dark Brandon is running circles around an opposition that paints him as senile.

clairity 3y ago

that's an astute observation. i think the current administration designed this legislation for maximum airtime by trying to go all-in on debt forgiveness, without any conviction about whether it could actually withstand challenge. if they were interested in actually helping the disadvantaged, then there are plenty of workarounds, like forgiving the interest and fees on student loans rather than forgiving principal. this would be more impervious to the idea that the executive branch was trying to wholesale rewrite legislation, rather than tweaking it on the margin, which was part of the court's rationale in this case.

bavell 3y ago

What a joke, we just wasted 2 years on an empty promise that was doomed to fail from the start and now all the people who have been waiting and suffering are getting nothing. All we get now is a blame-game of finger-pointing instead of any solutions. We got teased and led on for years. There is no alternative plan to the one proposed, all eggs in one basket on such a monumentally important issue. What a great victory!

rqtwteye 3y ago
"All we get now is a blame-game of finger-pointing instead of any solutions. " That's how modern US politics works. They have given up on actually solving problems a long time ago. And people are stupid enough to buy into this nonsense.
- EA-3167 3y ago
  Even a cursory study of human history reveals that this is how politics usually works, and always has. People are fundamentally the same as we've been for thousands of years, so the means to manipulate us are fundamentally similar.
dragonwriter 3y ago
> There is no alternative plan That doesn't seem to be accurate: a new debt relief regulatory effort was initiated today, plus a repayment “on ramp” that limits the impact of ending the pause, plus a new income-based time-limited repayment program that will have low income borrowers paying $0. (The last of which was, IIRC, announced in principal around the same time as the forgiveness program, but not finalized in detail.) https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/secretary-cardona-statement-supreme-court-ruling-biden-administrations-one-time-student-debt-relief-plan https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/secretary-cardona-sta... Regulatory notice on the first part is here: https://www2.ed.gov/policy/highered/reg/hearulemaking/2023/negregpublichearingannouncement.pdf https://www2.ed.gov/policy/highered/reg/hearulemaking/2023/n...
EA-3167 3y ago
Welcome to politics, empty promises to the gullible have been a mainstay for thousands of years.
sanderjd 3y ago
How have they been suffering, when loan payments have been paused this whole time?

robomartin 3y ago

> that won't reflect badly on the administration I will agree if we define the audience as “the masses”. If, on the other hand, we consider the subset of people who actually engage in critical thinking, things should be different. This was a political stunt to gain votes. And, as you seem to suggest, it will still be used as yet another us-vs-them wedge tool used to divide and polarize the population. What’s outrageous is that the cost of university education has been inflated precisely due to government involvement through guarantees. Everyone should be horrified that 17 year olds are agreeing to loans in the $150K to $300K range (and more). And sometimes this is for degrees that will never lead to high income jobs. I saw this piece a while back on this 32 year old with some kind of a sociology degree that cost her $250K. She was making $60K a year, with no real prospects to do significantly better. My guess is that a reasonable cost for a degree is in a range similar to the cost of cars. The idea being to be able to pay it off in 5 to 7 years at the average earning potential for the corresponding degree. That might mean $20K to $150K max. For example, a CS undergrad degree should probably be in the $20K to $50K range. The only way that happens is in a market where government isn’t in the student loan business.

EA-3167 3y ago
> I will agree if we define the audience as “the masses”. If, on the other hand, we consider the subset of people who actually engage in critical thinking, things should be different. To be clear, that's a tiny minority which rarely impacts the outcomes of elections, and elections are what matter to politicians.
- robomartin 3y ago
  Yup, that’s true.

hindsightbias 3y ago

Dark Brandon is running circles around an opposition that paints him as senile.