3 ms·

Even if this particular instance is fabricated, to my knowledge the past cake battles were not. Or the photographer. I realize from a legal standpoint we don't

Even if this particular instance is fabricated, to my knowledge the past cake battles were not. Or the photographer. I realize from a legal standpoint we don't have a good way to define this. My issue is also not this specific case. But we have been talking about people providing services for gay marriages for 10 years now? Including a few court cases. What bothers me is that those earlier things ever made it to court in the first place and it didn't just end with "well ok I will find someone else". Like what did fighting about this minor thing get us other than making people (conservatives) angry? Thats my problem and concern here. We spent so much time talking about this stuff that doesn't matter, while making the conservative base angry, and I can't shake this feeling that it's biting us in the ass now.

mrkeen 3y ago
> What bothers me is that those earlier things ever made it to court in the first place and it didn't just end with "well ok I will find someone else". What things are you willing to find someone else for? A different doctor? A different lawyer? A different water fountain? Why didn't Rosa Parks simply start a more inclusive (business savvy) bus service and put the bigots out of business?
- hindsightbias 3y ago
  Whether concern troll or not, there are going to be a lot of people blaming liberals when this court overturns Obergefell.
text0404 3y ago
> Like what did fighting about this minor thing get us other than making people (conservatives) angry? "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty" if we don't fight about "minor things" then they'll continue to strip away rights until all the "minor" things together are a major thing. it surprises me that you have such a dismissive attitude towards the fight for equal rights since you self-identified as gay (i am also gay).
- nerdjon 3y ago
  Nothing about forcing someone to bake me a wedding cake or make a website for my wedding is moving the needle at all for equal rights when I could just as easily go to someone who would happily take my money. It never has. Maybe in 10-20 years when people stop giving a shit than sure, we can say they are clearly in the minority and we can have a different discussion. But we are not there. At best talking about this stuff is a distraction at worst it is actively moving us backwards. And I fear that we are on the worst side of things considering how drastically things have changed in the other direction in the last few years. The fact is we have to look at why after making so much progress we are regressing and I refuse to put all of that blame on the opposition when we picked the stupid battles like cakes. Frankly at this point in time I don't give a rats ass about someone baking a cake or making a website when trans kids can't get the healthcare that they need and we have schools across this country trying to erase queer identities. Also the issues with many of the racial books being removed from school. This is not the issue we should be talking about and never was.
  - fzeroracer 3y ago
    Except you're missing the forest for the trees. These cases are used to deny rights to trans people as well as gay people. The religious right to discriminate is used to hammer down all minorities. The fact that you're blaming the victim of the case is really quite absurd. You can't fathom that each of these smaller actions comes together to make a body of argument against the rights of minorities to exist. They're already doing this to excise transgender healthcare by claiming that they have a free speech right to not treat them. And again I encourage you to actually read this case before you respond, though I doubt you will. The people that brought this case forward literally made up a gay couple so they could have an argument against needing to serve them [1]. This isn't us picking a bad argument, this is systematic dismantling of our rights by bad faith actors. [1] https://newrepublic.com/article/173987/mysterious-case-fake-gay-marriage-website-real-straight-man-supreme-court https://newrepublic.com/article/173987/mysterious-case-fake-...
    - nerdjon 3y ago

mrkeen 3y ago

> What bothers me is that those earlier things ever made it to court in the first place and it didn't just end with "well ok I will find someone else". What things are you willing to find someone else for? A different doctor? A different lawyer? A different water fountain? Why didn't Rosa Parks simply start a more inclusive (business savvy) bus service and put the bigots out of business?

hindsightbias 3y ago
Whether concern troll or not, there are going to be a lot of people blaming liberals when this court overturns Obergefell.

text0404 3y ago

> Like what did fighting about this minor thing get us other than making people (conservatives) angry? "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty" if we don't fight about "minor things" then they'll continue to strip away rights until all the "minor" things together are a major thing. it surprises me that you have such a dismissive attitude towards the fight for equal rights since you self-identified as gay (i am also gay).

nerdjon 3y ago
Nothing about forcing someone to bake me a wedding cake or make a website for my wedding is moving the needle at all for equal rights when I could just as easily go to someone who would happily take my money. It never has. Maybe in 10-20 years when people stop giving a shit than sure, we can say they are clearly in the minority and we can have a different discussion. But we are not there. At best talking about this stuff is a distraction at worst it is actively moving us backwards. And I fear that we are on the worst side of things considering how drastically things have changed in the other direction in the last few years. The fact is we have to look at why after making so much progress we are regressing and I refuse to put all of that blame on the opposition when we picked the stupid battles like cakes. Frankly at this point in time I don't give a rats ass about someone baking a cake or making a website when trans kids can't get the healthcare that they need and we have schools across this country trying to erase queer identities. Also the issues with many of the racial books being removed from school. This is not the issue we should be talking about and never was.
- fzeroracer 3y ago
  Except you're missing the forest for the trees. These cases are used to deny rights to trans people as well as gay people. The religious right to discriminate is used to hammer down all minorities. The fact that you're blaming the victim of the case is really quite absurd. You can't fathom that each of these smaller actions comes together to make a body of argument against the rights of minorities to exist. They're already doing this to excise transgender healthcare by claiming that they have a free speech right to not treat them. And again I encourage you to actually read this case before you respond, though I doubt you will. The people that brought this case forward literally made up a gay couple so they could have an argument against needing to serve them [1]. This isn't us picking a bad argument, this is systematic dismantling of our rights by bad faith actors. [1] https://newrepublic.com/article/173987/mysterious-case-fake-gay-marriage-website-real-straight-man-supreme-court https://newrepublic.com/article/173987/mysterious-case-fake-...
  - nerdjon 3y ago