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Good point. I was so frustrated at how bad the book Atomic Habits was, (in comparison to Power of Habit). It felt like some 20 year old was explaining how to l

Good point. I was so frustrated at how bad the book Atomic Habits was, (in comparison to Power of Habit). It felt like some 20 year old was explaining how to life a good life with all the experience 20 year olds have. Lots of idealistic ways to organize things. Lots of mental gymnastics to supposedly make you more productive. I did like the 'improve yourself 1% a day', but I did that with a spin bike and quickly got injured... Meanwhile Power of Habit was more like a pop-science book with the goal of teaching you brain science and apply it. I'd pay 50k-100k for that book, it has been revolutionary. I'm off all drugs, I can quit social media whenever I want(I'm only back because of LLMs), I quit video games, I made my evenings productive instead of hedonistic. Anyway, I wanted to see if anyone agreed with me because I wasted hours reading Atomic Habits. Thank you Good Reads. It was therapeutic.

heap_perms 3y ago
> It felt like some 20 year old was explaining how to life a good life with all the experience 20 year olds have. That hits the nail on the head. I cannot comprehend how this book is so popular. It literally covered in dozens of cute little platitudes like "take little steps". It does not contain a single paragraph of original thought. It's just so... naively simplistic, so _obivous_.
veave 3y ago
>Meanwhile Power of Habit was more like a pop-science book with the goal of teaching you brain science and apply it. I'd pay 50k-100k for that book, it has been revolutionary. I'm off all drugs, I can quit social media whenever I want(I'm only back because of LLMs), I quit video games, I made my evenings productive instead of hedonistic. Is it that good?
- classified 3y ago
  > I made my evenings productive instead of hedonistic. My condolences.
  - hospitalJail 3y ago
    As a Stoic, this accomplishes my goals and makes me happier than when I'm grinding video games.
- crossroadsguy 3y ago
  No, god no! That book horrible just like the its Atomic cousin. I tried both and these are such sheer waste of time and can be a good tool to humiliate your own intellect.
- OldManRyan 3y ago
  Not the person you are responding to but I also believe Power of Habit is better than Atomic Habits.
  - veave 3y ago
    Thanks. But I ask objectively, not in comparison to Atomic Habits. And, perhaps, if there's any book better than the two... feel free to comment.
    - jyunwai 3y ago
      "Tiny Habits" by Dr. BJ Fogg, a research associate at Stanford, is my preferred book (though my view is more boring: I think "Atomic Habits," "The Power of Habit," and "Tiny Habits" are all worth a glance-through). From my personal experience, I remembered the most from this book years later, in contrast to the other two. Specifically, I still use the idea of "prompts" for behaviour change. I remembered how it's typically not a good idea to use time as a prompt to do something (e.g. this is not effective: "At 8 pm every day, I will go outside for a jog"), but instead to use a prompt that's easy to notice (e.g. this is more effective: "After dinner every day, I will go outside for a jog"). I also really appreciated the idea of avoiding personally blaming yourself or others for unwanted behaviour, and looking at systems change first. I still remember the author's anecdote about solving a conflict with a roommate who complained about the bathroom floor being wet too often: instead of focusing on guilting the person, the systematic change was simply to put a bathroom towel on the floor to make it easier to dry the floor. Similarly, I've been able to keep my own bathroom cleaner by putting cleaning tools in easier reach. Lastly, I appreciated the appendix that contains book summary charts, mnemonics (e.g. a habit can be thought of as "ABC": an anchor/prompt, a behaviour, and a celebration), and suggested habits (especially positive habits that help with tending to interpersonal relationships). I still remember all of this years later, so in my personal experience, this book had the greatest impact on me. ~~~ For "The Power of Habit" by Charles Duhigg, it's a bit harder to skim as it lacks the graphs and summaries from "Tiny Habits." However, the ideas are mostly the same. For example, this book focuses on triggering behaviour with "cues,” which are equivalent to "prompts" in "Tiny Habits.” The idea of “keystone habits” also stood out as more emphasized to me in this book, where certain habits can have the most impact in contrast to others. I suspect this book was popular because you might feel smarter from reading it, as it explores case studies about corporations and US military training, but it’s a bit harder to skim to refresh, due to lacking the graphs and summaries of the other two books. ~~~ For "Atomic Habits" by James Clear, I respect the book for what it is. It's engaging for most people to read, popular, and it makes the ideas easy to understand for lots of people. I prefer "Tiny Habits" more, but I respect “Atomic Habits” for making the ideas accessible to a larger audience. I actually found it fairly similar to Tiny Habits: it also has diagrams, and it also has mnemonics (e.g. a habit as a Cue-Craving-Response-Reward). The author also talks about making positive habits easier to do in simple ways, similar to the “Tiny Habits” author. I believe the biggest difference between the two was that "Atomic Habits" focused more on motivating behaviour change by focusing on a want to change your identity (e.g. by reminding yourself that a person you would want to become would practice different habits). This might be a source of criticism about the book, as the advice is less practical in contrast to the other ideas, though it has some plausibility (e.g. in my personal experience, reminders that one is a professional have been effective at changing behaviour). Upon a skim now, I do remember having the feeling that the ideas of “Atomic Habits” were similar to those of “Tiny Habits,” but I preferred the “Tiny Habits” appendix more, and I also had a personal preference for the writing style of the book by Fogg. ~~~ To summarize this whole comment, I believe all three are worth at least a skim, though I like “Tiny Habits” the most for the writing style and provided graphs and mnemonics. But you can’t go wrong if you’re interested in habit change with any of them, as they overlap a lot and roughly cover the same ideas for behaviour change.
dhbradshaw 3y ago
Who is the author of Power of Habit? (Looks like there are a few different books you could be referring to.)
- hospitalJail 3y ago
  Charles Duhigg Couldn't recommend it enough. I can make my life robotic if I want, and still be happy. Its mind boggling. (Admittedly, you have to turn it into a habit, which means like ~3 days of 'suck', but after that its automatic)
  - andai 3y ago
    You can form a habit in 3 days? I thought the consensus was 20-30. I've done things every day for 50+ days without the habit sticking. I think I heard "habit resistance" is related to ADHD.
    - hospitalJail 3y ago
      The pain goes away after 3 days. It becomes automatic. But I also should clarify that this is specifically the basal ganglia that is being affected, and the basal ganglia works in a rigid way. A 'habit' isnt sticking after 50 days, you might be replacing it occasionally with something else, which is essentially breaking the habit. From the book, I can imagine a bunch of ways why this is going wrong. Maybe you are doing something that scratches the itch that would otherwise drive the habit. Maybe you are not doing the cue-routine-reward cycle when you do your new habit. I feel like I'm doing a real disservice to the book because I'm summarizing ~300 pages, I'm about to hop off HN and don't want to go into further detail, and I don't even know what habit you were working on. Don't let my terrible comment dissuade you. I also don't recommend summaries of this book, they missed too much.
bodge5000 3y ago
I haven't read Power of Habit (maybe I should if its that different), but I have read Atomic Habits and I found it useful. Admittedly I didn't get past the 3rd chapter, I felt like at that point I knew what they were getting at and didn't need much more. Maybe I missed out on a lot, but what I got from those 3 chapters was enough (basically just the idea of doing something every day, even if its the literal bare minimum).
arrowsmith 3y ago
You might enjoy the podcast If Books Could Kill: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/atomic-habits/id1651876897?i=1000617125857 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/atomic-habits/id165187...
- hospitalJail 3y ago
  I listened to it. Oof it hurt for a second time. Good to hear it get a nice dress down.
epiccoleman 3y ago
> I'm off all drugs, I can quit social media whenever I want(I'm only back because of LLMs), I quit video games, I made my evenings productive instead of hedonistic. Good god, how scary. Thanks for the warning!
- BaseballPhysics 3y ago
  Not sure if you're serious or sarcastic, but I completely agree. Productivity hacking culture needs to die a painful death. Life is about so much more than just maximizing output...
  - 93po 3y ago
    Life is about identifying your values and finding ways to work towards those values. If he does that with productive evenings instead of watching TV, I am sure that gives him purpose and makes him happy.
    - BaseballPhysics 3y ago
      I agree, but you must admit hustle culture is a thing, and the OP sure sounds like they've fallen victim to it.
  - hospitalJail 3y ago
    I'm a Stoic. Anyway, getting off all drugs has been great, mostly due to the hedonic treadmill/tolerance. Similar with video games. Games are fun today, but if I play them for a few weeks, they become work. I get way more excitement out of achieving a new 3D print design or finishing a coding feature. Not to mention, reading non-fiction is pretty great, mind blowing stuff if you find the right book, as previously mentioned. I somewhat blame Disney, I get all excited for some hedonism, and they release a crappy starwars episode. I'm more disappointed than if I worked all night.
- jemmyw 3y ago
  I had the same thought but then I do need to make sure my evenings are the right kind of hedonism.

heap_perms 3y ago

> It felt like some 20 year old was explaining how to life a good life with all the experience 20 year olds have. That hits the nail on the head. I cannot comprehend how this book is so popular. It literally covered in dozens of cute little platitudes like "take little steps". It does not contain a single paragraph of original thought. It's just so... naively simplistic, so _obivous_.

veave 3y ago

>Meanwhile Power of Habit was more like a pop-science book with the goal of teaching you brain science and apply it. I'd pay 50k-100k for that book, it has been revolutionary. I'm off all drugs, I can quit social media whenever I want(I'm only back because of LLMs), I quit video games, I made my evenings productive instead of hedonistic. Is it that good?

classified 3y ago
> I made my evenings productive instead of hedonistic. My condolences.
- hospitalJail 3y ago
  As a Stoic, this accomplishes my goals and makes me happier than when I'm grinding video games.
crossroadsguy 3y ago
No, god no! That book horrible just like the its Atomic cousin. I tried both and these are such sheer waste of time and can be a good tool to humiliate your own intellect.
OldManRyan 3y ago
Not the person you are responding to but I also believe Power of Habit is better than Atomic Habits.
- veave 3y ago
  Thanks. But I ask objectively, not in comparison to Atomic Habits. And, perhaps, if there's any book better than the two... feel free to comment.
  - jyunwai 3y ago
    "Tiny Habits" by Dr. BJ Fogg, a research associate at Stanford, is my preferred book (though my view is more boring: I think "Atomic Habits," "The Power of Habit," and "Tiny Habits" are all worth a glance-through). From my personal experience, I remembered the most from this book years later, in contrast to the other two. Specifically, I still use the idea of "prompts" for behaviour change. I remembered how it's typically not a good idea to use time as a prompt to do something (e.g. this is not effective: "At 8 pm every day, I will go outside for a jog"), but instead to use a prompt that's easy to notice (e.g. this is more effective: "After dinner every day, I will go outside for a jog"). I also really appreciated the idea of avoiding personally blaming yourself or others for unwanted behaviour, and looking at systems change first. I still remember the author's anecdote about solving a conflict with a roommate who complained about the bathroom floor being wet too often: instead of focusing on guilting the person, the systematic change was simply to put a bathroom towel on the floor to make it easier to dry the floor. Similarly, I've been able to keep my own bathroom cleaner by putting cleaning tools in easier reach. Lastly, I appreciated the appendix that contains book summary charts, mnemonics (e.g. a habit can be thought of as "ABC": an anchor/prompt, a behaviour, and a celebration), and suggested habits (especially positive habits that help with tending to interpersonal relationships). I still remember all of this years later, so in my personal experience, this book had the greatest impact on me. ~~~ For "The Power of Habit" by Charles Duhigg, it's a bit harder to skim as it lacks the graphs and summaries from "Tiny Habits." However, the ideas are mostly the same. For example, this book focuses on triggering behaviour with "cues,” which are equivalent to "prompts" in "Tiny Habits.” The idea of “keystone habits” also stood out as more emphasized to me in this book, where certain habits can have the most impact in contrast to others. I suspect this book was popular because you might feel smarter from reading it, as it explores case studies about corporations and US military training, but it’s a bit harder to skim to refresh, due to lacking the graphs and summaries of the other two books. ~~~ For "Atomic Habits" by James Clear, I respect the book for what it is. It's engaging for most people to read, popular, and it makes the ideas easy to understand for lots of people. I prefer "Tiny Habits" more, but I respect “Atomic Habits” for making the ideas accessible to a larger audience. I actually found it fairly similar to Tiny Habits: it also has diagrams, and it also has mnemonics (e.g. a habit as a Cue-Craving-Response-Reward). The author also talks about making positive habits easier to do in simple ways, similar to the “Tiny Habits” author. I believe the biggest difference between the two was that "Atomic Habits" focused more on motivating behaviour change by focusing on a want to change your identity (e.g. by reminding yourself that a person you would want to become would practice different habits). This might be a source of criticism about the book, as the advice is less practical in contrast to the other ideas, though it has some plausibility (e.g. in my personal experience, reminders that one is a professional have been effective at changing behaviour). Upon a skim now, I do remember having the feeling that the ideas of “Atomic Habits” were similar to those of “Tiny Habits,” but I preferred the “Tiny Habits” appendix more, and I also had a personal preference for the writing style of the book by Fogg. ~~~ To summarize this whole comment, I believe all three are worth at least a skim, though I like “Tiny Habits” the most for the writing style and provided graphs and mnemonics. But you can’t go wrong if you’re interested in habit change with any of them, as they overlap a lot and roughly cover the same ideas for behaviour change.

dhbradshaw 3y ago

Who is the author of Power of Habit? (Looks like there are a few different books you could be referring to.)

hospitalJail 3y ago
Charles Duhigg Couldn't recommend it enough. I can make my life robotic if I want, and still be happy. Its mind boggling. (Admittedly, you have to turn it into a habit, which means like ~3 days of 'suck', but after that its automatic)
- andai 3y ago
  You can form a habit in 3 days? I thought the consensus was 20-30. I've done things every day for 50+ days without the habit sticking. I think I heard "habit resistance" is related to ADHD.
  - hospitalJail 3y ago
    The pain goes away after 3 days. It becomes automatic. But I also should clarify that this is specifically the basal ganglia that is being affected, and the basal ganglia works in a rigid way. A 'habit' isnt sticking after 50 days, you might be replacing it occasionally with something else, which is essentially breaking the habit. From the book, I can imagine a bunch of ways why this is going wrong. Maybe you are doing something that scratches the itch that would otherwise drive the habit. Maybe you are not doing the cue-routine-reward cycle when you do your new habit. I feel like I'm doing a real disservice to the book because I'm summarizing ~300 pages, I'm about to hop off HN and don't want to go into further detail, and I don't even know what habit you were working on. Don't let my terrible comment dissuade you. I also don't recommend summaries of this book, they missed too much.

bodge5000 3y ago

I haven't read Power of Habit (maybe I should if its that different), but I have read Atomic Habits and I found it useful. Admittedly I didn't get past the 3rd chapter, I felt like at that point I knew what they were getting at and didn't need much more. Maybe I missed out on a lot, but what I got from those 3 chapters was enough (basically just the idea of doing something every day, even if its the literal bare minimum).

arrowsmith 3y ago

You might enjoy the podcast If Books Could Kill: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/atomic-habits/id1651876897?i=1000617125857 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/atomic-habits/id165187...

hospitalJail 3y ago
I listened to it. Oof it hurt for a second time. Good to hear it get a nice dress down.

epiccoleman 3y ago

> I'm off all drugs, I can quit social media whenever I want(I'm only back because of LLMs), I quit video games, I made my evenings productive instead of hedonistic. Good god, how scary. Thanks for the warning!

BaseballPhysics 3y ago
Not sure if you're serious or sarcastic, but I completely agree. Productivity hacking culture needs to die a painful death. Life is about so much more than just maximizing output...
- 93po 3y ago
  Life is about identifying your values and finding ways to work towards those values. If he does that with productive evenings instead of watching TV, I am sure that gives him purpose and makes him happy.
  - BaseballPhysics 3y ago
    I agree, but you must admit hustle culture is a thing, and the OP sure sounds like they've fallen victim to it.
- hospitalJail 3y ago
  I'm a Stoic. Anyway, getting off all drugs has been great, mostly due to the hedonic treadmill/tolerance. Similar with video games. Games are fun today, but if I play them for a few weeks, they become work. I get way more excitement out of achieving a new 3D print design or finishing a coding feature. Not to mention, reading non-fiction is pretty great, mind blowing stuff if you find the right book, as previously mentioned. I somewhat blame Disney, I get all excited for some hedonism, and they release a crappy starwars episode. I'm more disappointed than if I worked all night.
jemmyw 3y ago
I had the same thought but then I do need to make sure my evenings are the right kind of hedonism.