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Quoting Reddit: "The problem of rebuilders has been around forever. Things heated up a couple of months ago when we detected what we think was a continued bad-f

Quoting Reddit: "The problem of rebuilders has been around forever. Things heated up a couple of months ago when we detected what we think was a continued bad-faith action from one of the rebuilders, not on the code/engineering side but on the commercial/money making side of their house. That's as far as I'll go publicly. After that it was just a matter of discussion on what to do about it, so we landed on the announcements I made last week."

pipo234 3y ago
Curious to learn who the bad faith actor was. Oracle? Rocky Linux? Alma? VMware? All of the above? And what avenues of negotiating a better outcome did they try before opting for the nuclear tactics?
- bonzini 3y ago
  I don't have a view in which rebuild they saw bad-faith action from; but I have doubts something has changed at Oracle.
  - pipo234 3y ago
    Disclaimer: I'm an ex-oracle employee. Making millions on DB software only withhold RedHat the pocket change they absolutely deserve is absolutely pathetic. Even with the helpful support and hand holding of then co-workers, I found that Oracle's unbreakable linux is a close to useless rip off, littered with subtle gotchas, pitfalls and please-insert-yet-another-license-key-here. Installing, tuning and maintaining an OS professionally on enterprise hardware to run enterprise software is the bread and butter of RedHat. I never understood why they insisted pushing their own mediocre engineers instead, and did not want to pony up the (relatively) modest cost of reselling the license. > I have doubts something has changed at Oracle. I guess so. It still mystifies me why they haven't gone out of business wearing the emperors cloths.
    - josephcsible 3y ago
      > Oracle's unbreakable linux is a close to useless rip off, littered with subtle gotchas, pitfalls and please-insert-yet-another-license-key-here. I've never heard of Oracle Linux needing a license key anywhere before. Can you provide a link to somewhere that talks more about that?
      - omniglottal 3y ago
        Their business model allowed for greater ease to actually download and run unregistered/unlicensed copies, but higher costs with per-core licensing and clauses which required (i.e.) the per-core licensed OS plus the per-core licensed database if you wanted to use the latter. It was both easier to run for free and way more expensive to run in legal compliance.
luma 3y ago
Post-IBM RH always falls back on this: we took a free operating system and made billions from selling it to others, and now we're extra-mad that somebody else is doing the same.
- bonzini 3y ago
  Why the fixation with "post-IBM"? Ever heard of PNAELV? https://lwn.net/Articles/578768/ https://lwn.net/Articles/578768/ for the history (up until 9 years ago).
account42 3y ago
That quote is someone complaining that others are making money of "their" work, not that Red Had isn't making enough money to fund development.

pipo234 3y ago

Curious to learn who the bad faith actor was. Oracle? Rocky Linux? Alma? VMware? All of the above? And what avenues of negotiating a better outcome did they try before opting for the nuclear tactics?

bonzini 3y ago
I don't have a view in which rebuild they saw bad-faith action from; but I have doubts something has changed at Oracle.
- pipo234 3y ago
  Disclaimer: I'm an ex-oracle employee. Making millions on DB software only withhold RedHat the pocket change they absolutely deserve is absolutely pathetic. Even with the helpful support and hand holding of then co-workers, I found that Oracle's unbreakable linux is a close to useless rip off, littered with subtle gotchas, pitfalls and please-insert-yet-another-license-key-here. Installing, tuning and maintaining an OS professionally on enterprise hardware to run enterprise software is the bread and butter of RedHat. I never understood why they insisted pushing their own mediocre engineers instead, and did not want to pony up the (relatively) modest cost of reselling the license. > I have doubts something has changed at Oracle. I guess so. It still mystifies me why they haven't gone out of business wearing the emperors cloths.
  - josephcsible 3y ago
    > Oracle's unbreakable linux is a close to useless rip off, littered with subtle gotchas, pitfalls and please-insert-yet-another-license-key-here. I've never heard of Oracle Linux needing a license key anywhere before. Can you provide a link to somewhere that talks more about that?
    - omniglottal 3y ago
      Their business model allowed for greater ease to actually download and run unregistered/unlicensed copies, but higher costs with per-core licensing and clauses which required (i.e.) the per-core licensed OS plus the per-core licensed database if you wanted to use the latter. It was both easier to run for free and way more expensive to run in legal compliance.

luma 3y ago

Post-IBM RH always falls back on this: we took a free operating system and made billions from selling it to others, and now we're extra-mad that somebody else is doing the same.

bonzini 3y ago
Why the fixation with "post-IBM"? Ever heard of PNAELV? https://lwn.net/Articles/578768/ https://lwn.net/Articles/578768/ for the history (up until 9 years ago).

account42 3y ago

That quote is someone complaining that others are making money of "their" work, not that Red Had isn't making enough money to fund development.