5 ms·

At the same time, the world is full of ideas, and a pretty tiny fraction of them are any good. The world feels especially full of ideas these days, since a lot

by funkah 15y ago

At the same time, the world is full of ideas, and a pretty tiny fraction of them are any good. The world feels especially full of ideas these days, since a lot of folks now fancy themselves "creatives" (that is, people who come up with ideas without having to get into the yucky business of actually executing on them). Here's the real challenge: What deserves your five minutes in the first place? Many intellectually bankrupt ideas benefit from the notion that both sides of an argument should be considered. This is partially why we have dumb ideas like "intelligent design" floating around -- they get their oxygen from the mistaken notion that both sides should be considered, when in truth the issue is much more one-sided, or should be. Because ideas have power, there is an incentive to pitch such ideas and to persuade others with them, however hollow they may be on examination. There is value in talking about "clean coal", even though no such thing actually exists in the world. You can't waste five minutes of your life every time someone says their ideas at you. So, what do you do? I suppose my approach is to try to develop a filter, to try to focus on things that are actually worth thinking about. But honing that filter is a challenge in itself, trying to keep oneself intellectually honest, trying not to indulge in parochialism. This is a tough subject, there are no easy answers.

irishcoffee 15y ago
To be fair, your "floating around idea" example has been "floating around" for quite some time. You destroy the value of the article by bringing up a topic people fight wars over. And I don't agree that thinking about anything is ever a waste of time, even if it is in fact a stupid idea. A waste of time is vegging out in front of a TV.
aero142 15y ago
I think this 5 minutes applies to a lot more than just right or wrong. Intelligent design isn't an engineering decision you are talking about, it's politics. If you take the 5 minutes to think about why people believe what they do, you can learn a lot about the mindset of a large group of people on this planet. This might end up being a lot more important than proving intelligent design is wrong. There are lots of ways to spend your 5 minutes.
lclarkmichalek 15y ago
"A pretty tiny fraction of them are any good"? I really don't agree. Most every idea is pretty good, at least in a couple of circumstances. Most every idea also has very serious flaws. But that does not mean the idea is worthless. I guess the most obvious example is democracy; it has some very serious flaws, but it's the best we've got. Usually, the same can be said for any popular political philosophy; good, but with some serious flaws. Also, in the vast majority of cases, both sides of the argument should be concidered. Sure ID should be dead by now, but the first time it was proposed it very definatly should have had both sides heard. Look at when evolution was first proposed as an idea. Had both sides not been heard on that idea, had it not been given it's 5 minutes, we would live in a very different world. Of course this is an example that will make many people wince, as I am comparing an evidence backed theory with pure religious dogma, but I fail to see the difference. If religious based dogma cannot be successfully argued against, then maybe some more research should be done to counter it. But until a rational/scientific argument can be formed against it, I see no reason why it should not receive its 5 minutes. I disagree with you. Every time you deny an idea 5 minutes, or the time it takes to form a convincing argument against it, you are presuming guilt. It's standard that we put the burden of proof on the person proposing the idea, but just recently I've been trying to put the burden of proof on myself. If I cannot form or find a convincing argument to counter the idea, then what reason do I have not to accept it? Or if not accept it, at least give it a space in the great library of valid ideas. Maybe "giving the idea 5 minutes" is a bad way to look at it, but coming up with a purely rational/scientific basis for the dismissal or acceptance of any idea is a very good exercise.
yelsgib 15y ago
It's funny that you've responded to a post about not giving a knee-jerk reaction with the most obvious knee-jerk reaction. Did you actually read the OP and think about what it was saying? Are there any lessons that you could apply to your life? It wasn't meant to be a sweeping generality - it was meant to convey a sense, a feeling, an intuition. Namely, the idea that you (yes even you) might not be thinking things out carefully enough before responding to them. For instance, take your idea of the reason for intelligent design. Are you 100% positive that this is actually where the idea comes from, why it persists? The anthropologist in me disagrees. In fact, I'd say that such ideas actually get carried along because no one stops to think about them...even for 5 minutes.
astrofinch 15y ago
Another idea is to deliberately practice the skill of discarding opinions you've previously expressed, and cultivate a social circle where this doesn't cause you to lose status: http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/06/overcoming-disa.html http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/06/overcoming-disa.html

by funkah 15y ago

irishcoffee 15y ago

To be fair, your "floating around idea" example has been "floating around" for quite some time. You destroy the value of the article by bringing up a topic people fight wars over. And I don't agree that thinking about anything is ever a waste of time, even if it is in fact a stupid idea. A waste of time is vegging out in front of a TV.

aero142 15y ago

I think this 5 minutes applies to a lot more than just right or wrong. Intelligent design isn't an engineering decision you are talking about, it's politics. If you take the 5 minutes to think about why people believe what they do, you can learn a lot about the mindset of a large group of people on this planet. This might end up being a lot more important than proving intelligent design is wrong. There are lots of ways to spend your 5 minutes.

lclarkmichalek 15y ago

"A pretty tiny fraction of them are any good"? I really don't agree. Most every idea is pretty good, at least in a couple of circumstances. Most every idea also has very serious flaws. But that does not mean the idea is worthless. I guess the most obvious example is democracy; it has some very serious flaws, but it's the best we've got. Usually, the same can be said for any popular political philosophy; good, but with some serious flaws. Also, in the vast majority of cases, both sides of the argument should be concidered. Sure ID should be dead by now, but the first time it was proposed it very definatly should have had both sides heard. Look at when evolution was first proposed as an idea. Had both sides not been heard on that idea, had it not been given it's 5 minutes, we would live in a very different world. Of course this is an example that will make many people wince, as I am comparing an evidence backed theory with pure religious dogma, but I fail to see the difference. If religious based dogma cannot be successfully argued against, then maybe some more research should be done to counter it. But until a rational/scientific argument can be formed against it, I see no reason why it should not receive its 5 minutes. I disagree with you. Every time you deny an idea 5 minutes, or the time it takes to form a convincing argument against it, you are presuming guilt. It's standard that we put the burden of proof on the person proposing the idea, but just recently I've been trying to put the burden of proof on myself. If I cannot form or find a convincing argument to counter the idea, then what reason do I have not to accept it? Or if not accept it, at least give it a space in the great library of valid ideas. Maybe "giving the idea 5 minutes" is a bad way to look at it, but coming up with a purely rational/scientific basis for the dismissal or acceptance of any idea is a very good exercise.

yelsgib 15y ago

It's funny that you've responded to a post about not giving a knee-jerk reaction with the most obvious knee-jerk reaction. Did you actually read the OP and think about what it was saying? Are there any lessons that you could apply to your life? It wasn't meant to be a sweeping generality - it was meant to convey a sense, a feeling, an intuition. Namely, the idea that you (yes even you) might not be thinking things out carefully enough before responding to them. For instance, take your idea of the reason for intelligent design. Are you 100% positive that this is actually where the idea comes from, why it persists? The anthropologist in me disagrees. In fact, I'd say that such ideas actually get carried along because no one stops to think about them...even for 5 minutes.

astrofinch 15y ago

Another idea is to deliberately practice the skill of discarding opinions you've previously expressed, and cultivate a social circle where this doesn't cause you to lose status: http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/06/overcoming-disa.html http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/06/overcoming-disa.html