4 ms·

It's all money. They don't want you keeping a phone for 5 years. Yes. Hardware vendors love Open Source. It essentially cedes all control of the market to th

It's all money. They don't want you keeping a phone for 5 years. Yes. Hardware vendors love Open Source. It essentially cedes all control of the market to them. They spend minimal time/money/effort on software development and updates because surprise, surprise --- it doesn't produce profits, it consumes them. Hardware is where they make all their money. The only realistic way to get long term software support on Android is from Open Source. This means installing a replacement, 3rd party Open Source ROM. This is the first thing I do when I buy a new phone --- and I won't buy a phone that doesn't have good 3rd party support. I have a Moto G4 Play from 2016 that gets regular software updates running e/OS. The last update was May 14th. This is my backup phone (I have a backup for everything that is considered "essential"). My primary phone is a Moto One 5G Ace (2021) which also has excellent support from e/OS and it's currently cheap as dirt considering the hardware specs. Only $129 from Amazon with 6GB RAM, 128GB storage, Snapdragon 765 processor, 2 day battery and microSD expansion. If I accidentally leave it in an Uber or drop it in a toilet, it's sad but no big deal. I just switch to the backup until the replacement arrives. Try that with your $1000 iPhone.

bartvk 3y ago
> I just switch to the backup until the replacement arrives. Try that with your $1000 iPhone. Do you really keep them fully sync'ed? How do you sync photos?
- jqpabc123 3y ago
  I don't keep them fully synced. I do back up the "important stuff" on my primary phone to off device storage on a fairly regular basis. So my backup phone can be brought up to sync if need be. A secret weapon in this regard is an Android open source file manager called Material Files which can create compressed files and speaks SMB. I usually create backups onto a SD memory card and then periodically copy these to local off device storage using wifi.
aaomidi 3y ago
You’re not getting the updated proprietary blobs for the chips. You’re just getting an updated OS.
- tourmalinetaco 3y ago
  Which is better than nothing.
  - gettodachoppa 3y ago
    It's better than almost anything else. I don't understand you people worried about driver bugs in a smartphone. Facebook isn't going to deploy malware to my phone using Whatsapp, MS isn't going to do that using Outlook, Google isn't going to do that through Google Maps. Everything I used is either by a reputable developer, or open-source from F-Droid. The only way I'm getting malware is if they manage to: 1) exploit a bug in my up-to-date web browser, 2) bug #1 is used to exploit a bug in the hardware driver. Oh, and of course, since I only visit reputable sites, I'm never exposed to malware. I'd have better odds of winning the lottery.
- jqpabc123 3y ago
  You’re just getting an updated OS. Which is where most security issues are found and/or mitigated. Unless a hacker has physical possession of the device, access to these blobs generally runs through the OS.
RankingMember 3y ago
How's the camera? For me, the camera is more important than anything else on a phone, and thus far I've been stuck with Pixels because, despite the shorter support period (and absolutely mind-bogglingly bad customer service), that software does amazing things with old camera hardware .
- jqpabc123 3y ago
  Fair to middling. It's a competent, well rounded phone --- not the best, not the worst in any respect. You can find reviews online. https://www.techradar.com/reviews/motorola-one-5g-ace-review https://www.techradar.com/reviews/motorola-one-5g-ace-review It's perfectly adequate for my needs and I haven't found any issues with the e/OS ROM support. But if only the best will do for you, this obviously isn't it.
  - inanutshellus 3y ago
    "Middling" appropriately describes Motorola cameras. I've bought Motos exclusively since the original Droid and have finally moved off of the brand because of the camera. It wasn't an important feature until I started getting potato quality photos of my children doing first-time-ever events.
    - RankingMember 3y ago
      Yeah, I finally got a Pixel because the camera was hard to beat. I since jumped to an iPhone 13, but honestly the Pixel still camera results were better. iPhone's video is the best of any phone I've used, though.
- OJFord 3y ago
  Genuine question: why give yourself the headache of coupling having a great camera to choosong a phone then, if it's important to you? Why not have a compact camera as well as whatever phone, and carry that when quality matters?
  - 3y ago
znpy 3y ago
> The only realistic way to get long term software support on Android is from Open Source. Or by laws and regulations. I hope the EU will do something practical in this area, since it seems to be the only entity capable of pushing some useful changes. Example: the digital markets act, which will force companies like apple to allow for side loading of apps. No us entity even attempted at anything similar as far as i know.
- martin8412 3y ago
  Apple is the only phone manufacturer providing long term software support... Every single phone shipping with Qualcomm SoCs are at the mercy of Qualcomm. When they want you to buy a new chip, they'll kill support for your current chip, meaning that the manufacturer will have to spend effort making newer Android work with older kernel versions if even possible. My Sony Xperia Z3 had software support killed by Qualcomm. They refused to provide the binary blobs required to make next Android version work despite the CPU being perfectly capable, as evidenced by the beta builds that only needed a small update from Qualcomm.
Blip-A 3y ago
> The only realistic way to get long term software support on Android is from Open Source. This means installing a replacement, 3rd party Open Source ROM. What ROM do you use and what level of support does it provide? I was interested in third-party ROMs until I read this part of the GrapheneOS FAQ[1]: > GrapheneOS can only fully provide security updates to a device provided that the OEM is releasing them. When an OEM is no longer providing security updates, GrapheneOS aims to provide harm reduction releases for devices which only have a minimum of 3 years support. [...] Harm reduction releases do not have complete security patches because it's not possible to provide full security updates for the device without OEM support and they are intended to buy users some limited time to migrate to a supported device. So, what exactly do people mean when they claim that third-party ROMs provide "long-term" support? Do they just allow older phones to run newer versions of Android, albeit without full security updates? [1] https://grapheneos.org/faq#device-lifetime https://grapheneos.org/faq#device-lifetime
- jqpabc123 3y ago
  What ROM do you use and what level of support does it provide? See here: https://e.foundation/ https://e.foundation/ Do they just allow older phones to run newer versions of Android, albeit without full security updates? The "full security updates" GrapheneOS references has to do with proprietary device drivers. This is an unrealistic over-reaction in my opinion. Why abandon perfectly functional hardware based on some unknown possibility that exists with both old and new hardware? Newer, supported devices could easily have these same sort of issues. They really don't know and the OEM does not offer any guarantee or certification otherwise. If the mere possibility of a bug is enough to abandon support, they really shouldn't support anything because this possibility always exists. Most security issues occur in the OS or can be mitigated in the OS. Without physical possession of the device, access to drivers passes through the OS.
  - predictabl3 3y ago
    Except that popular chipsets (ie: get community support due to device saturation) do see vulnerabilities published past the point of support. I trust Qualcomm's ability to develop their modem driver (which is an entire Linux install) very little, and I trust it's ability to stand the test of time to be even less. I'm not sure I'm saying it's a total loss, but I feel a bit lost on what to do as well. Do I think Google will support their Tensor chips longer? Not really. I feel like I still lean towards buying a portable hotspot, a small Android tablet, and calling it good. I already get calls over VOIP and SMS/MMS over jmp.chat so I don't really need a "cellular phone". But also, ugh, those portable hotspots are probably even more of a vendor-ware security nightmare. At least I could upgrade them independently and somewhat treat it as isolated, if I only connect over Wifi? Maybe?
axus 3y ago
I've the same phone, and stock it is pretty bloat-free. Main complaint is the charging; no wireless and the USB-C is not secure and will pop out in most orientations.

bartvk 3y ago

> I just switch to the backup until the replacement arrives. Try that with your $1000 iPhone. Do you really keep them fully sync'ed? How do you sync photos?

jqpabc123 3y ago
I don't keep them fully synced. I do back up the "important stuff" on my primary phone to off device storage on a fairly regular basis. So my backup phone can be brought up to sync if need be. A secret weapon in this regard is an Android open source file manager called Material Files which can create compressed files and speaks SMB. I usually create backups onto a SD memory card and then periodically copy these to local off device storage using wifi.

aaomidi 3y ago

You’re not getting the updated proprietary blobs for the chips. You’re just getting an updated OS.

tourmalinetaco 3y ago
Which is better than nothing.
- gettodachoppa 3y ago
  It's better than almost anything else. I don't understand you people worried about driver bugs in a smartphone. Facebook isn't going to deploy malware to my phone using Whatsapp, MS isn't going to do that using Outlook, Google isn't going to do that through Google Maps. Everything I used is either by a reputable developer, or open-source from F-Droid. The only way I'm getting malware is if they manage to: 1) exploit a bug in my up-to-date web browser, 2) bug #1 is used to exploit a bug in the hardware driver. Oh, and of course, since I only visit reputable sites, I'm never exposed to malware. I'd have better odds of winning the lottery.
jqpabc123 3y ago
You’re just getting an updated OS. Which is where most security issues are found and/or mitigated. Unless a hacker has physical possession of the device, access to these blobs generally runs through the OS.

RankingMember 3y ago

How's the camera? For me, the camera is more important than anything else on a phone, and thus far I've been stuck with Pixels because, despite the shorter support period (and absolutely mind-bogglingly bad customer service), that software does amazing things with old camera hardware .

jqpabc123 3y ago
Fair to middling. It's a competent, well rounded phone --- not the best, not the worst in any respect. You can find reviews online. https://www.techradar.com/reviews/motorola-one-5g-ace-review https://www.techradar.com/reviews/motorola-one-5g-ace-review It's perfectly adequate for my needs and I haven't found any issues with the e/OS ROM support. But if only the best will do for you, this obviously isn't it.
- inanutshellus 3y ago
  "Middling" appropriately describes Motorola cameras. I've bought Motos exclusively since the original Droid and have finally moved off of the brand because of the camera. It wasn't an important feature until I started getting potato quality photos of my children doing first-time-ever events.
  - RankingMember 3y ago
    Yeah, I finally got a Pixel because the camera was hard to beat. I since jumped to an iPhone 13, but honestly the Pixel still camera results were better. iPhone's video is the best of any phone I've used, though.
OJFord 3y ago
Genuine question: why give yourself the headache of coupling having a great camera to choosong a phone then, if it's important to you? Why not have a compact camera as well as whatever phone, and carry that when quality matters?
- 3y ago

znpy 3y ago

> The only realistic way to get long term software support on Android is from Open Source. Or by laws and regulations. I hope the EU will do something practical in this area, since it seems to be the only entity capable of pushing some useful changes. Example: the digital markets act, which will force companies like apple to allow for side loading of apps. No us entity even attempted at anything similar as far as i know.

martin8412 3y ago
Apple is the only phone manufacturer providing long term software support... Every single phone shipping with Qualcomm SoCs are at the mercy of Qualcomm. When they want you to buy a new chip, they'll kill support for your current chip, meaning that the manufacturer will have to spend effort making newer Android work with older kernel versions if even possible. My Sony Xperia Z3 had software support killed by Qualcomm. They refused to provide the binary blobs required to make next Android version work despite the CPU being perfectly capable, as evidenced by the beta builds that only needed a small update from Qualcomm.

Blip-A 3y ago

> The only realistic way to get long term software support on Android is from Open Source. This means installing a replacement, 3rd party Open Source ROM. What ROM do you use and what level of support does it provide? I was interested in third-party ROMs until I read this part of the GrapheneOS FAQ[1]: > GrapheneOS can only fully provide security updates to a device provided that the OEM is releasing them. When an OEM is no longer providing security updates, GrapheneOS aims to provide harm reduction releases for devices which only have a minimum of 3 years support. [...] Harm reduction releases do not have complete security patches because it's not possible to provide full security updates for the device without OEM support and they are intended to buy users some limited time to migrate to a supported device. So, what exactly do people mean when they claim that third-party ROMs provide "long-term" support? Do they just allow older phones to run newer versions of Android, albeit without full security updates? [1] https://grapheneos.org/faq#device-lifetime https://grapheneos.org/faq#device-lifetime

jqpabc123 3y ago
What ROM do you use and what level of support does it provide? See here: https://e.foundation/ https://e.foundation/ Do they just allow older phones to run newer versions of Android, albeit without full security updates? The "full security updates" GrapheneOS references has to do with proprietary device drivers. This is an unrealistic over-reaction in my opinion. Why abandon perfectly functional hardware based on some unknown possibility that exists with both old and new hardware? Newer, supported devices could easily have these same sort of issues. They really don't know and the OEM does not offer any guarantee or certification otherwise. If the mere possibility of a bug is enough to abandon support, they really shouldn't support anything because this possibility always exists. Most security issues occur in the OS or can be mitigated in the OS. Without physical possession of the device, access to drivers passes through the OS.
- predictabl3 3y ago
  Except that popular chipsets (ie: get community support due to device saturation) do see vulnerabilities published past the point of support. I trust Qualcomm's ability to develop their modem driver (which is an entire Linux install) very little, and I trust it's ability to stand the test of time to be even less. I'm not sure I'm saying it's a total loss, but I feel a bit lost on what to do as well. Do I think Google will support their Tensor chips longer? Not really. I feel like I still lean towards buying a portable hotspot, a small Android tablet, and calling it good. I already get calls over VOIP and SMS/MMS over jmp.chat so I don't really need a "cellular phone". But also, ugh, those portable hotspots are probably even more of a vendor-ware security nightmare. At least I could upgrade them independently and somewhat treat it as isolated, if I only connect over Wifi? Maybe?

axus 3y ago

I've the same phone, and stock it is pretty bloat-free. Main complaint is the charging; no wireless and the USB-C is not secure and will pop out in most orientations.