7 ms·

> In fact Blu-Ray Mdiscs were rated for 1000 years Rated by their marketing team, not by reality. Independent testing showed marked different results. Better

> In fact Blu-Ray Mdiscs were rated for 1000 years Rated by their marketing team, not by reality. Independent testing showed marked different results. Better than regular discs? Yes. 1000 years? No. Not even close (10-50 years seemed the range, depending on conditions)

dabluecaboose 3y ago
I realize this isn't really the thread for this, but what is the most longevity-rated storage medium, tape?
- gambiting 3y ago
  Surely, it's paper. Properly stored it remains readable for thousands of years.
- photonerd 3y ago
  Standard medium? Paper stored well. Custom special? Probably some form of the metal engraving encased in glass. GlassMasterDisc by Syylex was an attempt to do that for DVDs but I don’t think they’re made anymore. Those actually were a LOT better than MDisc in practical tests
- humanistbot 3y ago
  You can't just focus on longevity of the material medium, because then you'll be carving into clay tablets, which we have actual proof that it can last for millennia. Or maybe that is perfect if you only have a few very important kilobytes to store for millennia, don't need to retrieve data through a digital network, and can trust that there will be people who will know how to decode it. Longevity is a function of both the material stability of the medium and usability (of storage, of retrieval, of space, of scale, of complexity, of cost). If nobody can decode those bits, it doesn't matter if they are still in the medium. The most optimal storage system is not a single technology, it is a well-funded and well-managed institution. You need people to regularly check integrity of redundant archives and replace individual media when they fail. You also need people to migrate the entire archive to new storage technology when the current generation is growing obsolete. The institution has to regularly buy and maintain drives and computers that can read it, which is often overlooked. Another major issue is longevity and documentation of the data formats and encodings. The bits can still be on the medium, and your drive can still read them, but are you're out of luck if you don't know how it was encoded. "Tape" is not a single medium, it is a class that includes some formats that are now incredibly difficult to decode. Look at this recent thread about what is needed to read from an old IBM tape format, it's an expensive mess: https://groups.google.com/g/bit.listserv.ibm-main/c/AOlRa0qxY60?pli=1 https://groups.google.com/g/bit.listserv.ibm-main/c/AOlRa0qx...
gambiting 3y ago
Have they? Apparently American DoD certified M-Disc claims. I can't find any results on Google that would prove otherwise either, if you have anything please link.
- photonerd 3y ago
  The American DoD did no such thing. M-Disc PR released details of a DoD China Lake test that showed M-Disc was more durable than regular DVDs. They are, that’s not up for debate, though not by much & not all (as I’ll explain later) The 1000 year claim is, however, utterly unsubstantiated. The French National Laboratory of Metrology and Testing (LNE) did actual aggressive testing. M-Disc performance was low compared to other long term storage & comparable to regular organic DVD-Rs from Verbatim. In fact it performed worse than regular organic DVD+R’s from MPO.

dabluecaboose 3y ago

I realize this isn't really the thread for this, but what is the most longevity-rated storage medium, tape?

gambiting 3y ago
Surely, it's paper. Properly stored it remains readable for thousands of years.
photonerd 3y ago
Standard medium? Paper stored well. Custom special? Probably some form of the metal engraving encased in glass. GlassMasterDisc by Syylex was an attempt to do that for DVDs but I don’t think they’re made anymore. Those actually were a LOT better than MDisc in practical tests
humanistbot 3y ago
You can't just focus on longevity of the material medium, because then you'll be carving into clay tablets, which we have actual proof that it can last for millennia. Or maybe that is perfect if you only have a few very important kilobytes to store for millennia, don't need to retrieve data through a digital network, and can trust that there will be people who will know how to decode it. Longevity is a function of both the material stability of the medium and usability (of storage, of retrieval, of space, of scale, of complexity, of cost). If nobody can decode those bits, it doesn't matter if they are still in the medium. The most optimal storage system is not a single technology, it is a well-funded and well-managed institution. You need people to regularly check integrity of redundant archives and replace individual media when they fail. You also need people to migrate the entire archive to new storage technology when the current generation is growing obsolete. The institution has to regularly buy and maintain drives and computers that can read it, which is often overlooked. Another major issue is longevity and documentation of the data formats and encodings. The bits can still be on the medium, and your drive can still read them, but are you're out of luck if you don't know how it was encoded. "Tape" is not a single medium, it is a class that includes some formats that are now incredibly difficult to decode. Look at this recent thread about what is needed to read from an old IBM tape format, it's an expensive mess: https://groups.google.com/g/bit.listserv.ibm-main/c/AOlRa0qxY60?pli=1 https://groups.google.com/g/bit.listserv.ibm-main/c/AOlRa0qx...

gambiting 3y ago

Have they? Apparently American DoD certified M-Disc claims. I can't find any results on Google that would prove otherwise either, if you have anything please link.

photonerd 3y ago
The American DoD did no such thing. M-Disc PR released details of a DoD China Lake test that showed M-Disc was more durable than regular DVDs. They are, that’s not up for debate, though not by much & not all (as I’ll explain later) The 1000 year claim is, however, utterly unsubstantiated. The French National Laboratory of Metrology and Testing (LNE) did actual aggressive testing. M-Disc performance was low compared to other long term storage & comparable to regular organic DVD-Rs from Verbatim. In fact it performed worse than regular organic DVD+R’s from MPO.