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> NATO marched eastward, which eventually provoked the Russians to launch a preventive war. How can this be a convincing argument in the 21st century?
by poisonborz 3y ago
> NATO marched eastward, which eventually provoked the Russians to launch a preventive war.
How can this be a convincing argument in the 21st century?
- ailef 3y agoLook at the reactions in the US to the story that came up just a few weeks ago about a possible Chinese "spy base" in Cuba. Cuba being a sovereign state and all, I'll let you draw the parallelism yourself...
- threeseed 3y agoThere has been a Chinese spy base in Cuba for years now. And remind me who forced Finland and Sweden to join NATO just a few months ago ? Sure seems like they did this on their own volition given it passed their parliamentary processes.
- 2-718-281-828 3y agobut that's whataboutism /s
- _kbh_ 3y ago> Look at the reactions in the US to the story that came up just a few weeks ago about a possible Chinese "spy base" in Cuba. Cuba being a sovereign state and all, I'll let you draw the parallelism yourself... Theres been a Chinese spy base in Cuba for two years at this point, and yet no invasion. Russia has had its border with NATO extended greatly by this war, by Finland joining, and yet no war with Finland.
- avgcorrection 3y agoIt doesn’t make sense to 21st century people. So-called Balance of Power Politics doesn’t make sense to the 21st century mindset—only to the 19th century mindset. (In his 2015 lecture he contrasted 21st century people (the Washington Establishment) with 19th century people (people like himself and “the Chinese”).) Basically the West including USA and some others promised that NATO would not “move one inch” eastward in return for German unification. That was under Gorbachev. That was only an oral agreement though and funnily enough Gorbachev now has denied that such an agreement was made… not that it matters that much, really.
- 0xDEF 3y agoAs a Danish guy who has been to both Ukraine and Eastern Germany I'm fine with undoing German unification and handing Eastern Germany to Russia and letting Ukraine into NATO.
- avgcorrection 3y agoWhy?
- TheLoafOfBread 3y ago> Basically the West including USA and some others promised that NATO would not “move one inch” eastward in return for German unification. Which is not true. https://hls.harvard.edu/today/there-was-no-promise-not-to-enlarge-nato/ https://hls.harvard.edu/today/there-was-no-promise-not-to-en...
- avgcorrection 3y agoSo Robert Zoellick claims. But the evidence is against him.[1] > Declassified documents show security assurances against NATO expansion to Soviet leaders from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner That list includes James Baker, his former boss. [1] https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017...
- TheLoafOfBread 3y agoAnd here you have Gorbachev himself, telling that nothing like that was ever said > M.G.: The topic of “NATO expansion” was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. I say this with full responsibility. Not a singe Eastern European country https://www.rbth.com/international/2014/10/16/mikhail_gorbachev_i_am_against_all_walls_40673.html https://www.rbth.com/international/2014/10/16/mikhail_gorbac...
- 3y ago