6 ms·

Square Gets Approved for New York City Taxicab Pilot

91 points by sethbannon 15y ago

untog 15y ago
Very interesting development. You can already pay by card in NYC so that functionality isn't going to be anything exciting for riders. However, the opportunity for apps is huge- right now there's just a dumb TV terminal in the cab that plays the same horrible videos over and over. I've been working on a taxi-based app (http://www.taxono.my/ http://www.taxono.my/ - I'll stop mentioning it in every post I make soon) that would go fantastically into a Square-attached tablet. But I'm not sure what they'll allow and what they won't, at this point. I imagine there might be a hefty fee involved...
- joelhaus 15y ago
  Concur with this... most cabs actually have two card sliders (one under the touch screen & one attached to the barrier glass), do they really need a third piece of hardware? Why isn't the TLC just negotiating for lower fees from the payment processors? Perhaps I'm missing something... [Sidenote]: LOVE using Google Wallet on my Galaxy Nexus to pay for cabs (they're all equipped with PayPass), very much hoping that Apple will jump on NFC, making it ubiquitous. If there is an opportunity for apps, my guess is that we will see more development around payments via NFC (untog's app would integrate nicely with some payment info). Carrying around cards will hopefully seem old school, similar to how paper checks are now (still need them, but they won't go extinct too quickly).
- Terretta 15y ago
  Sincere good luck. I was involved in developing one of the first NY cab video + credit card hardware designs in the early 00s. We actually built it into an real yellow cab that, entertainingly, I got park in my driveway and drive around during the venture (on loan from one of the largest fleet owners). We combined 16:9 screen, ATM keys, tap-and-go card reader, and traditional card stripe swipe, into a self contained unit mounted into the safety panel. You could mute it (of course). It played a safety PSA, then let you figuratively "change the channel" to show you up-to-date video clips per your interest -- sports, news, weather, broadway promos, etc. -- or a GPS map of the cab's location in the city. A key innovation let us update the videos on the fly in all the cabs without requiring a SD card swap or a cellular data charge. Great backers, but project got killed in a TLC political maneuver. It's a challenging industry to try to break into and try to change. The devices you see deployed in Vegas, Chicago, and NYC, are mostly hamstrung in various ways that often cost the cabbies or annoy riders. It's disappointing to see, but if someone can muster both the tech and the political clout, it's still ripe for disruption. Square might have that chance.
  - Drbble 15y ago
    ? The system you describe is exactly what is in NYC cabs right now. Maybe you you were just ahead of your time.
    - Terretta 15y ago
      What's in cabs today is about 4x as expensive, bulkier, less durable, the user has less control, and the video content doesn't get refreshed on the fly. Our business plan offered a lower processing fee, paid into a health fund for cabbies, and had other financial bonuses to fleets, cabbies, and the city. There were about a half dozen "competing" systems (hardware and business model) at the time. A couple of the others got adopted and their progeny are what you see in cabs in NYC now. We were backed by some of the best known finance, ad, and government money, but the decision was neither technical nor based on cost to cab owners or even cost to fleets. As I said, I hope Square can disrupt that situation.
bunderbunder 15y ago
Last time I was in New York, the cab driver who gave me a lift from the airport mentioned to me the fee charged by the processing system they currently use. I don't remember the exact number he gave, but I remember it sounded very high to me. If Square charges cab drivers the same price they charge me, this could be a very good thing for NYC cabbies.
- callmeed 15y ago
  Interesting ... I was just in Vegas and noticed that the credit card cabs hit the passenger with the processing fee. I believe it was $2 or $3. I've also noticed in general that cabbies simply don't like credit card customers.
  - danso 15y ago
    The cabbies raised a ruckus when credits cards were introduced...however, data shows that when rides were cash only, cabbies received 10% tips. With credit cards, the average was 22%. Hard to complain about that: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/08/nyregion/08taxi.html http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/08/nyregion/08taxi.html The Times also reported that the fact that cabs have cards - and livery cars do not - may have helped the taxi industry while hurting the private car business. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/25/nyregion/25taxis.html http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/25/nyregion/25taxis.html
    - bunderbunder 15y ago
      Bet they get more rides, too. I'm much more willing to catch a cab in NYC than I am in Chicago or Milwaukee, because I usually don't carry enough cash for a ride and I'm usually not in the mood to squabble with the driver. I swear, I can usually walk to my destination in the time it takes to watch a Chicago cabbie pantomime with the card reader in an effort to convince me it's broken.
      - falsestprophet 15y ago
        Before you get in the cab ask, "Can you accept credit cards right now?" I found they won't hassle me if they know I'm onto their scam.
tjsnyder 15y ago
This is useless when every cab driver that picks you up will just claim the machine is broken. This is not even just me complaining. I believe the market is going to be difficult to break due to cabbie habits.
- untog 15y ago
  I've lived in New York for three years and this has only happened to me once. I'm not convinced it's that huge a deal.
  - kgermino 15y ago
    It's much more common in the Midwest. In Chicago cabs are essentially required to accept credit cards if they want to pick up a fare (there's an exception for the handful of independent cab's in the city). I don't take cabs all that often (4-5 times a month) but I have had a driver resist taking the credit card at least 20% of the time, and within that subset well over half use the 'broken machine' excuse. Of course it always seems to work once I tell them "it's credit, or I don't pay"...
    - Drbble 15y ago
      The machines are very sensitive to vapors offgassed by green dyes, but it is a psychosomatic allergy, much like RSI. (That's why cabs are yellow in color.) If you politely explain to the driver (within earshot of the machine) that you do not have cash, the machine will recover temporarily.
  - daeken 15y ago
    I've lived in New York for about a year and a half and up until this month, I was taking cabs at least twice a day. I've had them pull the broken credit card machine excuse maybe 3 or 4 times. Obviously anecdotal, but it was so infrequent as to be a complete non-issue, and with the number of cabs on the road, it never actually caused me any problems.
    - deleted 15y ago
hack_edu 15y ago
Why add another layer of fees? What utility does this provide? Why must you install, register, and have to open an app for each purchase when you can just use existing, bulletproof tech?
- r00fus 15y ago
  You assume the existing system isn't laden with corruption and unrealistic fees. What's likely happened is that Square recognizes it can undercut some other (company|companies) too cozy in their operations and steal their lunch. Otherwise, adoption and success would fare poorly - Square don't sound like they're desperate or stupid.
notJim 15y ago
I wonder if they'll be using the same checkout devices as everwhere else. From what I've seen, the Square device is kind of flimsy looking and difficult to use. The device in a taxi cab needs to be able to handle a lot of abuse.
mathattack 15y ago
The city does seem serious about this. Best to get it done before Bloomberg is out!

91 points by sethbannon 15y ago

untog 15y ago

Very interesting development. You can already pay by card in NYC so that functionality isn't going to be anything exciting for riders. However, the opportunity for apps is huge- right now there's just a dumb TV terminal in the cab that plays the same horrible videos over and over. I've been working on a taxi-based app (http://www.taxono.my/ http://www.taxono.my/ - I'll stop mentioning it in every post I make soon) that would go fantastically into a Square-attached tablet. But I'm not sure what they'll allow and what they won't, at this point. I imagine there might be a hefty fee involved...

joelhaus 15y ago
Concur with this... most cabs actually have two card sliders (one under the touch screen & one attached to the barrier glass), do they really need a third piece of hardware? Why isn't the TLC just negotiating for lower fees from the payment processors? Perhaps I'm missing something... [Sidenote]: LOVE using Google Wallet on my Galaxy Nexus to pay for cabs (they're all equipped with PayPass), very much hoping that Apple will jump on NFC, making it ubiquitous. If there is an opportunity for apps, my guess is that we will see more development around payments via NFC (untog's app would integrate nicely with some payment info). Carrying around cards will hopefully seem old school, similar to how paper checks are now (still need them, but they won't go extinct too quickly).
Terretta 15y ago
Sincere good luck. I was involved in developing one of the first NY cab video + credit card hardware designs in the early 00s. We actually built it into an real yellow cab that, entertainingly, I got park in my driveway and drive around during the venture (on loan from one of the largest fleet owners). We combined 16:9 screen, ATM keys, tap-and-go card reader, and traditional card stripe swipe, into a self contained unit mounted into the safety panel. You could mute it (of course). It played a safety PSA, then let you figuratively "change the channel" to show you up-to-date video clips per your interest -- sports, news, weather, broadway promos, etc. -- or a GPS map of the cab's location in the city. A key innovation let us update the videos on the fly in all the cabs without requiring a SD card swap or a cellular data charge. Great backers, but project got killed in a TLC political maneuver. It's a challenging industry to try to break into and try to change. The devices you see deployed in Vegas, Chicago, and NYC, are mostly hamstrung in various ways that often cost the cabbies or annoy riders. It's disappointing to see, but if someone can muster both the tech and the political clout, it's still ripe for disruption. Square might have that chance.
- Drbble 15y ago
  ? The system you describe is exactly what is in NYC cabs right now. Maybe you you were just ahead of your time.
  - Terretta 15y ago
    What's in cabs today is about 4x as expensive, bulkier, less durable, the user has less control, and the video content doesn't get refreshed on the fly. Our business plan offered a lower processing fee, paid into a health fund for cabbies, and had other financial bonuses to fleets, cabbies, and the city. There were about a half dozen "competing" systems (hardware and business model) at the time. A couple of the others got adopted and their progeny are what you see in cabs in NYC now. We were backed by some of the best known finance, ad, and government money, but the decision was neither technical nor based on cost to cab owners or even cost to fleets. As I said, I hope Square can disrupt that situation.

bunderbunder 15y ago

Last time I was in New York, the cab driver who gave me a lift from the airport mentioned to me the fee charged by the processing system they currently use. I don't remember the exact number he gave, but I remember it sounded very high to me. If Square charges cab drivers the same price they charge me, this could be a very good thing for NYC cabbies.

callmeed 15y ago
Interesting ... I was just in Vegas and noticed that the credit card cabs hit the passenger with the processing fee. I believe it was $2 or $3. I've also noticed in general that cabbies simply don't like credit card customers.
- danso 15y ago
  The cabbies raised a ruckus when credits cards were introduced...however, data shows that when rides were cash only, cabbies received 10% tips. With credit cards, the average was 22%. Hard to complain about that: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/08/nyregion/08taxi.html http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/08/nyregion/08taxi.html The Times also reported that the fact that cabs have cards - and livery cars do not - may have helped the taxi industry while hurting the private car business. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/25/nyregion/25taxis.html http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/25/nyregion/25taxis.html
  - bunderbunder 15y ago
    Bet they get more rides, too. I'm much more willing to catch a cab in NYC than I am in Chicago or Milwaukee, because I usually don't carry enough cash for a ride and I'm usually not in the mood to squabble with the driver. I swear, I can usually walk to my destination in the time it takes to watch a Chicago cabbie pantomime with the card reader in an effort to convince me it's broken.
    - falsestprophet 15y ago
      Before you get in the cab ask, "Can you accept credit cards right now?" I found they won't hassle me if they know I'm onto their scam.

tjsnyder 15y ago

This is useless when every cab driver that picks you up will just claim the machine is broken. This is not even just me complaining. I believe the market is going to be difficult to break due to cabbie habits.

untog 15y ago
I've lived in New York for three years and this has only happened to me once. I'm not convinced it's that huge a deal.
- kgermino 15y ago
  It's much more common in the Midwest. In Chicago cabs are essentially required to accept credit cards if they want to pick up a fare (there's an exception for the handful of independent cab's in the city). I don't take cabs all that often (4-5 times a month) but I have had a driver resist taking the credit card at least 20% of the time, and within that subset well over half use the 'broken machine' excuse. Of course it always seems to work once I tell them "it's credit, or I don't pay"...
  - Drbble 15y ago
    The machines are very sensitive to vapors offgassed by green dyes, but it is a psychosomatic allergy, much like RSI. (That's why cabs are yellow in color.) If you politely explain to the driver (within earshot of the machine) that you do not have cash, the machine will recover temporarily.
- daeken 15y ago
  I've lived in New York for about a year and a half and up until this month, I was taking cabs at least twice a day. I've had them pull the broken credit card machine excuse maybe 3 or 4 times. Obviously anecdotal, but it was so infrequent as to be a complete non-issue, and with the number of cabs on the road, it never actually caused me any problems.
  - deleted 15y ago

hack_edu 15y ago

Why add another layer of fees? What utility does this provide? Why must you install, register, and have to open an app for each purchase when you can just use existing, bulletproof tech?

r00fus 15y ago
You assume the existing system isn't laden with corruption and unrealistic fees. What's likely happened is that Square recognizes it can undercut some other (company|companies) too cozy in their operations and steal their lunch. Otherwise, adoption and success would fare poorly - Square don't sound like they're desperate or stupid.

notJim 15y ago

I wonder if they'll be using the same checkout devices as everwhere else. From what I've seen, the Square device is kind of flimsy looking and difficult to use. The device in a taxi cab needs to be able to handle a lot of abuse.

mathattack 15y ago

The city does seem serious about this. Best to get it done before Bloomberg is out!