5 ms·

I think I have the first or second gen ipad. For some years now the OS and apps are frozen in time. I have basically some old games and the old safari browser.

I think I have the first or second gen ipad. For some years now the OS and apps are frozen in time. I have basically some old games and the old safari browser. The old safari is slow and, can you believe it, HN does not fully function! Now, we all know the hardware is premium and this device would probably run linux very smoothly and the touch interface would be a dream. But we can only dream right? WTF? Apple won’t allow us to use another OS or open software on old non-supported devices? What a waste of physical material! What a waste of human creativity! What a waste of my money! What a waste of my time! I don’t give a shit how its enabled the masses to be able to do selfies. This also mostly applies to android devices as well - which is another shit show. For fucks sake - its 2023 and occasionally we have HN posts that are announcing how we are getting closer to run linux on the latest macs with the new processors. Holy shit! Even with more access and control to the apple macs we still don’t have full linux capability. Apple has the best mathematicians to optimise for pure profit and as you can see they have done a great job. Apple 1 - Rest of the world 0. Woz, please have have a talk with Tim (Nice but dim) and tell him the wonders that can be unlocked by allowing apple devices to run linux natively without jailbreaks or hacks. Don’t give me any shit they can’t do that by next month. Until then I can only dream. Thank god we have surplus machines (eg thinkpads XNNN) available that show us the light of truth.

DennisAleynikov 3y ago
ah yes, the e-waste conundrum when you run an OS that is completely user hostile
- arcticbull 3y ago
  A first-gen iPad is 13 years old. How many tablets running a 'user-friendly' OS from 13 years ago do you still think are actually out there, being used? The only old tablets I see are running iOS/iPad OS. Probably because they're built on solid metal and glass skeletons. While I agree things could be better, Apple also does a commendable job of providing updates and support for devices much longer and much more consistently than their competitors. They are after all incentivized to do so thanks to their cut of App Store revenue.
  - DennisAleynikov 3y ago
    just saying they could be better, dual booting support for one. that would already fix the e-waste complaints
  - bunga-bunga 3y ago
    It’s true, but also it would cost little to unlock the device after they add it to the Vintage category. I’m sure that the EU will eventually come up with legislation that forces some larger manufactures to open artificial gates automatically after they declare the products “obsolete”
    - klausa 3y ago
      How do you see this being viable without completely compromising the security of people who, for whatever reason, still use those devices?
      - melvyn2 3y ago
        The pixel, for example, already has a secure yet user-unlockable bootloader. So do modern x86_64 PC's. Statements like these, claiming that only apple can properly secure a device (and hence that users deserve to be locked out), simply show astounding ignorance.
        kaba0 3y ago
        The M-series Macs also have similarly open, but secure bootloaders.
        klausa 3y ago
        Sure, but they were designed with that in mind, and have presence and authentication requirements, that, as I understand, are not retro-fittable to older devices. My claim isn’t “it’s impossible to implement a secure bootloader that also has escape hatches”. I’m saying it’s borderline impossible to do that retroactively for a fleet of obsolete devices, in a way that doesn’t compromise security of those.
raverbashing 3y ago
> hardware is premium and this device would probably run linux very smoothly and the touch interface would be a dream No, no it wouldnt. Because between Wayland infighting and DE infighting and what not and UX quirks and more blah blah blah it would run like molasses Just see how well a touchpad works on linux.
- Donckele 3y ago
  You think with apples human resources they couldn’t write the software to get their hardware to work?
  - jiggywiggy 3y ago
    Okay but now you are expecting them to manage another OS? Im with you on allowing more freedom, but to expect them to maintain linux for tablets?
    - Donckele 3y ago
      Software for hardware components is not like maintaining a linux distro. I don’t want to ignite programming language wars but, seriously, would it be that hard to get the current software “compatible” with a linux setup? If it is that hard then fire the software “engineers” and hire ones who will do a better job.
      - kaba0 3y ago
        Yes? Have you ever touched any code or wtf are you talking about? Literally every component’s driver has to be rewritten for a different operating system.
- realusername 3y ago
  Maybe Linux DEs would work better on touch devices if we could install them in the first place... Right now you either have niche near-obsolete devices which are unlocked, mainstream locked devices or mainstream unlocked but technically messy. So why and how to improve something you can't install?
golergka 3y ago
For 99% of the users, “human creativity” would mean installing malware.
- beefield 3y ago
  Hiding the option to allow "human creativity" behind two layers of menu hierarchy would mean 99% of users would never allow it.
  - golergka 3y ago
    Really? Try opening console on Facebook and tell me what prompted them to put that huge disclaimer there.
max51 3y ago
>linux very smoothly and the touch interface would be a dream linux distros have not yet managed to get proper interface for mouse+keyboard. Linux desktop is still a shitshow. They can't even provide an experience as good as what windows was doing back in the XP era. Even if Apple allowed alternative OS, I doubt linus would be good on it.
- letrowekwel 3y ago
  I guess you last tried Linux on desktop in XP era. Choose the right distro and it's perfectly fine, much better than Win 10 / 11 and fairly similar to XP.
- realusername 3y ago
  There's no issues whatsoever with mouse+keyboard interfaces on mainstream distros nowadays. I'm using PopOS personally and I encourage you to try it.
- Donckele 3y ago
  Ha ha. That never gets old. You know my XFCE is way better than the latest Windows 11 or macOS whatever. Sure, I don’t have an instagram app that controls my desktop background but I don’t give a shit about that.
- slow_typist 3y ago
  Even in the XP era the Linux desktop experience was way better. Windows behaves consistently inconsistent and destroys productivity instead of staying out of my way. Now, in a business environment, add network drives and endpoint protection and see where you end up …
- sofixa 3y ago
  Not only is it pretty good with enormous amounts of flexibility in terms of looks, keyboard combinations, etc. but it's actually better than macOS which is so lauded for it's UX. For one, you can have a different scroll direction between mouse and touchpad; and for two, you can do custom keyboard shortcuts without installing a third party keylogger.
jrmg 3y ago
The old safari is slow and, can you believe it, HN does not fully function! Now, we all know the hardware is premium and this device would probably run linux very smoothly and the touch interface would be a dream. But we can only dream right? Safari is not known for being slow. That machine is _old_. The iPad was released in 2010 - 13 years ago. And even when new it was substantially slower than contemporary PCs or Macs - Apple then was not the CPU powerhouse it is today. It has 256Mb RAM and early (so, slow) NAND flash storage. I really think you would (or, at least, most people would) be very disappointed at how well it would run Linux now. Things like web browsing and running recent applications, and more ‘HN’ things like coding, would be very sluggish.
- Donckele 3y ago
  Nah. I have older netbooks (remember them?) and they are still more usable (with linux) than my old ipad.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    Does your old Netbook have only 256MB of RAM and 500Mhz processor?
    - smoldesu 3y ago
      Because if so, that's enough to run 4 simultaneous instances of Linux!
      - scarface_74 3y ago
        How well will that work with the modern web and modern web browsers?
        smoldesu 3y ago
        Great! On paper it could handle Apache and NGINX like a charm, your modern web browsers would have no trouble accessing it.
thefz 3y ago
> This also mostly applies to android devices as well - which is another shit show. Totally not true, I am at my second "out of support" device on which I install LineageOS and enjoy current Android. Just unlock the bootloader. If you are tired of Apple selling basically hardware-as-a-service with strong planned obsolescence, don't buy their products, problem solved.
- Donckele 3y ago
  Android? Nah. I want my vanilla flavoured linux. Without biscuits.
- kaba0 3y ago
  So which devices actually support LineageOS, though? The one that wipes its proprietary firmware for the camera, leaving you with one that is orders of magnitude worse than the day you bought it? This may not matter as much for a tablet, but let’s not give the impression as if the android side of things were better. Especially that that ipad will have insane lifetime. That android tablet may not in the first place.
bloqs 3y ago
Tim nice but dim, now thats a quote I havent heard in a while...
camillomiller 3y ago
The amount of misconceptions about Apple in this post is staggering. It shows you know nothing about the company and how it operates. Yet, like chatGPT, you wrote it in a convincing enough way, so here you are with a post full of wrong inferences and segues at the top of a comment section. Disheartening.
hospitalJail 3y ago
>This also mostly applies to android devices as well - which is another shit show. What do you mean? I have been using my old androids for a ton of purposes. Admittedly 2 of them are for my kids who are play video games and watch youtube. I have one for my kitchen for recipes. Heck, you just gave me an idea when my wife's phone dies, I can use it for our gym crew to track weights.

DennisAleynikov 3y ago

ah yes, the e-waste conundrum when you run an OS that is completely user hostile

arcticbull 3y ago
A first-gen iPad is 13 years old. How many tablets running a 'user-friendly' OS from 13 years ago do you still think are actually out there, being used? The only old tablets I see are running iOS/iPad OS. Probably because they're built on solid metal and glass skeletons. While I agree things could be better, Apple also does a commendable job of providing updates and support for devices much longer and much more consistently than their competitors. They are after all incentivized to do so thanks to their cut of App Store revenue.
- DennisAleynikov 3y ago
  just saying they could be better, dual booting support for one. that would already fix the e-waste complaints
- bunga-bunga 3y ago
  It’s true, but also it would cost little to unlock the device after they add it to the Vintage category. I’m sure that the EU will eventually come up with legislation that forces some larger manufactures to open artificial gates automatically after they declare the products “obsolete”
  - klausa 3y ago
    How do you see this being viable without completely compromising the security of people who, for whatever reason, still use those devices?
    - melvyn2 3y ago
      The pixel, for example, already has a secure yet user-unlockable bootloader. So do modern x86_64 PC's. Statements like these, claiming that only apple can properly secure a device (and hence that users deserve to be locked out), simply show astounding ignorance.
      - kaba0 3y ago
        The M-series Macs also have similarly open, but secure bootloaders.
        klausa 3y ago
        Sure, but they were designed with that in mind, and have presence and authentication requirements, that, as I understand, are not retro-fittable to older devices. My claim isn’t “it’s impossible to implement a secure bootloader that also has escape hatches”. I’m saying it’s borderline impossible to do that retroactively for a fleet of obsolete devices, in a way that doesn’t compromise security of those.

raverbashing 3y ago

> hardware is premium and this device would probably run linux very smoothly and the touch interface would be a dream No, no it wouldnt. Because between Wayland infighting and DE infighting and what not and UX quirks and more blah blah blah it would run like molasses Just see how well a touchpad works on linux.

Donckele 3y ago
You think with apples human resources they couldn’t write the software to get their hardware to work?
- jiggywiggy 3y ago
  Okay but now you are expecting them to manage another OS? Im with you on allowing more freedom, but to expect them to maintain linux for tablets?
  - Donckele 3y ago
    Software for hardware components is not like maintaining a linux distro. I don’t want to ignite programming language wars but, seriously, would it be that hard to get the current software “compatible” with a linux setup? If it is that hard then fire the software “engineers” and hire ones who will do a better job.
    - kaba0 3y ago
      Yes? Have you ever touched any code or wtf are you talking about? Literally every component’s driver has to be rewritten for a different operating system.
realusername 3y ago
Maybe Linux DEs would work better on touch devices if we could install them in the first place... Right now you either have niche near-obsolete devices which are unlocked, mainstream locked devices or mainstream unlocked but technically messy. So why and how to improve something you can't install?

golergka 3y ago

For 99% of the users, “human creativity” would mean installing malware.

beefield 3y ago
Hiding the option to allow "human creativity" behind two layers of menu hierarchy would mean 99% of users would never allow it.
- golergka 3y ago
  Really? Try opening console on Facebook and tell me what prompted them to put that huge disclaimer there.

max51 3y ago

>linux very smoothly and the touch interface would be a dream linux distros have not yet managed to get proper interface for mouse+keyboard. Linux desktop is still a shitshow. They can't even provide an experience as good as what windows was doing back in the XP era. Even if Apple allowed alternative OS, I doubt linus would be good on it.

letrowekwel 3y ago
I guess you last tried Linux on desktop in XP era. Choose the right distro and it's perfectly fine, much better than Win 10 / 11 and fairly similar to XP.
realusername 3y ago
There's no issues whatsoever with mouse+keyboard interfaces on mainstream distros nowadays. I'm using PopOS personally and I encourage you to try it.
Donckele 3y ago
Ha ha. That never gets old. You know my XFCE is way better than the latest Windows 11 or macOS whatever. Sure, I don’t have an instagram app that controls my desktop background but I don’t give a shit about that.
slow_typist 3y ago
Even in the XP era the Linux desktop experience was way better. Windows behaves consistently inconsistent and destroys productivity instead of staying out of my way. Now, in a business environment, add network drives and endpoint protection and see where you end up …
sofixa 3y ago
Not only is it pretty good with enormous amounts of flexibility in terms of looks, keyboard combinations, etc. but it's actually better than macOS which is so lauded for it's UX. For one, you can have a different scroll direction between mouse and touchpad; and for two, you can do custom keyboard shortcuts without installing a third party keylogger.

jrmg 3y ago

The old safari is slow and, can you believe it, HN does not fully function! Now, we all know the hardware is premium and this device would probably run linux very smoothly and the touch interface would be a dream. But we can only dream right? Safari is not known for being slow. That machine is _old_. The iPad was released in 2010 - 13 years ago. And even when new it was substantially slower than contemporary PCs or Macs - Apple then was not the CPU powerhouse it is today. It has 256Mb RAM and early (so, slow) NAND flash storage. I really think you would (or, at least, most people would) be very disappointed at how well it would run Linux now. Things like web browsing and running recent applications, and more ‘HN’ things like coding, would be very sluggish.

Donckele 3y ago
Nah. I have older netbooks (remember them?) and they are still more usable (with linux) than my old ipad.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  Does your old Netbook have only 256MB of RAM and 500Mhz processor?
  - smoldesu 3y ago
    Because if so, that's enough to run 4 simultaneous instances of Linux!
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      How well will that work with the modern web and modern web browsers?
      - smoldesu 3y ago
        Great! On paper it could handle Apache and NGINX like a charm, your modern web browsers would have no trouble accessing it.

thefz 3y ago

> This also mostly applies to android devices as well - which is another shit show. Totally not true, I am at my second "out of support" device on which I install LineageOS and enjoy current Android. Just unlock the bootloader. If you are tired of Apple selling basically hardware-as-a-service with strong planned obsolescence, don't buy their products, problem solved.

Donckele 3y ago
Android? Nah. I want my vanilla flavoured linux. Without biscuits.
kaba0 3y ago
So which devices actually support LineageOS, though? The one that wipes its proprietary firmware for the camera, leaving you with one that is orders of magnitude worse than the day you bought it? This may not matter as much for a tablet, but let’s not give the impression as if the android side of things were better. Especially that that ipad will have insane lifetime. That android tablet may not in the first place.

bloqs 3y ago

Tim nice but dim, now thats a quote I havent heard in a while...

camillomiller 3y ago

The amount of misconceptions about Apple in this post is staggering. It shows you know nothing about the company and how it operates. Yet, like chatGPT, you wrote it in a convincing enough way, so here you are with a post full of wrong inferences and segues at the top of a comment section. Disheartening.

hospitalJail 3y ago

>This also mostly applies to android devices as well - which is another shit show. What do you mean? I have been using my old androids for a ton of purposes. Admittedly 2 of them are for my kids who are play video games and watch youtube. I have one for my kitchen for recipes. Heck, you just gave me an idea when my wife's phone dies, I can use it for our gym crew to track weights.