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I’ve owned ipads for a long time and their productivity benefits compared to my Mac and iphone has never improved over the years. This year I’m selling my last

I’ve owned ipads for a long time and their productivity benefits compared to my Mac and iphone has never improved over the years. This year I’m selling my last ipad and won’t buy again until Apple throws a “real” OS at the thing. one of the worst things about ios is that files get copied for each app. Say I download a PDF in the Documents app and want to annotate it. As soon as I open it with NoteX, a copy of the PDF is created in NoteX folder. this results in a chaotic situation, in terms of files and hierarchies.

DennisAleynikov 3y ago
I can't wait for ipads to mature
- trustingtrust 3y ago
  With M1 this was something that people hoped would happen. But right now all I use my iPad for is binge watching in my bed. I’ve owned an M1 air for a year and that’s literally all I do with it. If I had a TV in my room the utility of the iPad would be zero for me.
  - ineedasername 3y ago
    >If I had a TV in my room the utility of the iPad would be zero for me. TV's are cheaper than iPads these days
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- radicaldreamer 3y ago
  In practice, this means being able to run MacOS on them. All the hardware is already there, it's just a matter of time until Apple has the "courage" to enable it.
  - DennisAleynikov 3y ago
    given the botched launch of stage manager I'm not holding my breath
  - TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
    I think we are heading in opposite direction - iPadOS running on MacBook
  - WastingMyTime89 3y ago
    The issue is not courage. Apple knows that the use cases for the Macbook Air and the iPad Pro significantly overlap. So they use software limitations to avoid canibalising sells of one with the other even if it means making the iPad Pro a lesser product than it could be.
    - mcphage 3y ago
      > So they use software limitations to avoid canibalising sells of one with the other I'm not sure that's the case—Apple has generally not been afraid to cannibalize sales of their devices by their own devices.
  - prime17569 3y ago
    IMO it's not about running macOS on it but rather that there is a need for desktop-class features on iPad. Apple doesn't need to run macOS on iPad to add desktop-class features. I'd rather see those features added to iPadOS (as well as visionOS, which is clearly a derivative of iPadOS).
  - oneeyedpigeon 3y ago
    The hardware may be there, but the input models — touch vs. keyboard & mouse — are so fundamentally different that I think it makes sense to present different user experiences.
wlesieutre 3y ago
If apps are still handling files that way instead of being able to open documents from anywhere in your local files, iCloud Drive, it’s on the developer. Hasn’t been the case for years that this is the way files work, you should be able to save them to your Downloads folder (or elsewhere) and open them in whichever app you want. Give PDF Viewer a look if you want better file handling: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/pdf-viewer-annotation-expert/id1120099014 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/pdf-viewer-annotation-expert/i...
- DennisAleynikov 3y ago
  some apps use the proper api but thats not the norm yet, PDF Viewer uses it correctly
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    Which apps would that be?
- behnamoh 3y ago
  That further proves my point about iOS/iPadOS's limitations. Why can't files be handled like on Linux/Windows/Android/macOS/etc. without having to use iCloud? Edit: Goodnotes and Notability also have this annoyance.
  - dwaite 3y ago
    You don't have to use iCloud. You can use local storage, or any cloud provider, or SMB/CIFS.
    - abwizz 3y ago
      would also be nice if webdav could just be mounted. i mean caldav and carddav are supported in base os, whats the problem?
      - graftak 3y ago
justinclift 3y ago
For me, after doing a bunch of evaluation I went with buying an old (and very cheap) 2nd hard Surface Pro 3 on Ebay to see if that could possibly do the job. ... and yep, it does even with just Windows on it. Technically Linux can be loaded onto these things, and apparently works pretty well. But, I never got around to trying that out. About a year later I dropped the damn thing and completely shattered the screen. Still haven't replaced it, but mean to at some point. Again, not with an iPad, but probably a newer generation Surface Pro. And I'll put Linux on it this time. :)
- the__alchemist 3y ago
  My experience with Linux on on a SP wasn't great. The basic PC functionality is fine, but getting the pen and touch working required a custom kernel and a fair amount of effort. The input latency on the pen, combined with no good writing apps on Linux killed it for me.
  - justinclift 3y ago
    Ahhh damn. Didn't know that. Thanks for the heads up. :)
    - makeitdouble 3y ago
      Full linux as the host OS is probably excruciating. Keeping windows as the host and rely on the WSL2 subsystem seems fine, docker works as well.
  - diffeomorphism 3y ago
    Out of curiosity, what are the "good writing apps" on windows? When I last checked windows seemed to have exactly one note, android like 2 apps and iPad like 3 apps.
    - goosedragons 3y ago
      There's a few OneNote of course, Nebo, Noteshelf, Squid which is really an Android app. All of those are on iOS and Android too. Microsoft Journal I just discovered and seems alright.
brynjolf 3y ago
God I hope your wish never comes true. I don't understand why a device can't just be for consumption of media. Why is everyone trying to force this to become a computer with an annoyingly complicated navigation UX and the rest of the ceaveats when using a complete OS. If I ever have to worry about CPU usage or driver issues on my iPad I will be the one leaving. I bought an iPad NOT to work on it. It is my vacation device so work can never call me and ask me to do something quickly
- nicbou 3y ago
  I owned a Surface Go for two days before getting an iPad Mini. What made me return it was the file save dialog. I bought a device to read and doodle on, two things I used to do on paper. I browse through my sketches by turning pages, and finish the activity by closing the (note)book. Procreate and Google Play Books work similarly. After a whole day of installing updates and removing bloatware, the Surface wanted me to name and organise my drawings on a filesystem before I could do something else. My goal was to draw and read, not to use a computer. The Surface wanted me to think about files and updates and the device’s state. My iPad Mini is a book with benefits, paper with tricks.
  - fomine3 3y ago
    What app did you tried on Surface? OneNote works without treating files. (as it's also available on iPad)
    - goosedragons 3y ago
      Yeah, I'm curious too. If you use a desktop Windows app you will of course run into that kind of thing but there is apps like Sketchable available that are like what's on the iPad. Even on the iPad you can run into file save dialogs, from what I remember Clip Studio Paint on the iPad is for better or worse Clip Studio Paint on the iPad file save dialogs and all.
    - nicbou 3y ago
      I tried a few. OneNote was good for notes but not for art. None of them felt as good as their iPad counterparts, plus I had to deal with Windows.
prime17569 3y ago
This is probably because those developers haven't added support for opening files in place, which has been available since iOS 9. There are a few other things (e.g. the way you call open/save dialogs) that need to be changed if you want to add support as well.
- redeeman 3y ago
  i like how we are talking about an OS that initially released in 2007, and only got support for "opening files in place" in 2015. What a time to be alive, we can open files in place and all.. gotta give apple credit, while the rest of the world is reduced to lowly CopyOnWrite, they took it one step further, with CopyOnRead.
  - Doctor_Fegg 3y ago
    Given that we're in 2023 this seems like a weird hill to die on.
    - redeeman 3y ago
      in 2007 when ios first released, we had the ability to open files without insanities everywhere else. it was total insanity it was not possible, part of the apple thinking that you only do what they 100% say. Who would dare have some video file that isnt in itunes? well certainly not someone the mighty apple cares about. so this lead to movie players also having builtin ftp/smb/nfs clients/servers to be able to access your content, god forbid you could just have files. so yeah, to have a 2007-vintage API be "legacy that cannot open files properly" is a joke, pretending that it is not, is the apple reality distortion field
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    What next? Are you going to complain about Windows not supporting more than 8.3 character filenames until 1995?
    - redeeman 3y ago
freediverx 3y ago
There are many limitations with iPadOS, but that isn’t one of them. That issue was resolved years ago, and any remaining limitations are due to third-party developers not keeping up with evolving standards.
klyonrad 3y ago
> until Apple throws a “real” OS at the thing + it still doesn't offer user profiles, so it fails to serve as a family device in the living room
- mcfedr 3y ago
  Yeah, it's such an obvious use case and so limiting!
mcfedr 3y ago
I had a similar experience, I had iPads years ago, and recently got one again assuming it would be great, but it's just the same as years ago, really needs a proper os upgrade

DennisAleynikov 3y ago

I can't wait for ipads to mature

trustingtrust 3y ago
With M1 this was something that people hoped would happen. But right now all I use my iPad for is binge watching in my bed. I’ve owned an M1 air for a year and that’s literally all I do with it. If I had a TV in my room the utility of the iPad would be zero for me.
- ineedasername 3y ago
  >If I had a TV in my room the utility of the iPad would be zero for me. TV's are cheaper than iPads these days
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
radicaldreamer 3y ago
In practice, this means being able to run MacOS on them. All the hardware is already there, it's just a matter of time until Apple has the "courage" to enable it.
- DennisAleynikov 3y ago
  given the botched launch of stage manager I'm not holding my breath
- TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
  I think we are heading in opposite direction - iPadOS running on MacBook
- WastingMyTime89 3y ago
  The issue is not courage. Apple knows that the use cases for the Macbook Air and the iPad Pro significantly overlap. So they use software limitations to avoid canibalising sells of one with the other even if it means making the iPad Pro a lesser product than it could be.
  - mcphage 3y ago
    > So they use software limitations to avoid canibalising sells of one with the other I'm not sure that's the case—Apple has generally not been afraid to cannibalize sales of their devices by their own devices.
- prime17569 3y ago
  IMO it's not about running macOS on it but rather that there is a need for desktop-class features on iPad. Apple doesn't need to run macOS on iPad to add desktop-class features. I'd rather see those features added to iPadOS (as well as visionOS, which is clearly a derivative of iPadOS).
- oneeyedpigeon 3y ago
  The hardware may be there, but the input models — touch vs. keyboard & mouse — are so fundamentally different that I think it makes sense to present different user experiences.

wlesieutre 3y ago

If apps are still handling files that way instead of being able to open documents from anywhere in your local files, iCloud Drive, it’s on the developer. Hasn’t been the case for years that this is the way files work, you should be able to save them to your Downloads folder (or elsewhere) and open them in whichever app you want. Give PDF Viewer a look if you want better file handling: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/pdf-viewer-annotation-expert/id1120099014 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/pdf-viewer-annotation-expert/i...

DennisAleynikov 3y ago
some apps use the proper api but thats not the norm yet, PDF Viewer uses it correctly
- scarface_74 3y ago
  Which apps would that be?
behnamoh 3y ago
That further proves my point about iOS/iPadOS's limitations. Why can't files be handled like on Linux/Windows/Android/macOS/etc. without having to use iCloud? Edit: Goodnotes and Notability also have this annoyance.
- dwaite 3y ago
  You don't have to use iCloud. You can use local storage, or any cloud provider, or SMB/CIFS.
  - abwizz 3y ago
    would also be nice if webdav could just be mounted. i mean caldav and carddav are supported in base os, whats the problem?
    - graftak 3y ago

justinclift 3y ago

For me, after doing a bunch of evaluation I went with buying an old (and very cheap) 2nd hard Surface Pro 3 on Ebay to see if that could possibly do the job. ... and yep, it does even with just Windows on it. Technically Linux can be loaded onto these things, and apparently works pretty well. But, I never got around to trying that out. About a year later I dropped the damn thing and completely shattered the screen. Still haven't replaced it, but mean to at some point. Again, not with an iPad, but probably a newer generation Surface Pro. And I'll put Linux on it this time. :)

the__alchemist 3y ago
My experience with Linux on on a SP wasn't great. The basic PC functionality is fine, but getting the pen and touch working required a custom kernel and a fair amount of effort. The input latency on the pen, combined with no good writing apps on Linux killed it for me.
- justinclift 3y ago
  Ahhh damn. Didn't know that. Thanks for the heads up. :)
  - makeitdouble 3y ago
    Full linux as the host OS is probably excruciating. Keeping windows as the host and rely on the WSL2 subsystem seems fine, docker works as well.
- diffeomorphism 3y ago
  Out of curiosity, what are the "good writing apps" on windows? When I last checked windows seemed to have exactly one note, android like 2 apps and iPad like 3 apps.
  - goosedragons 3y ago
    There's a few OneNote of course, Nebo, Noteshelf, Squid which is really an Android app. All of those are on iOS and Android too. Microsoft Journal I just discovered and seems alright.

brynjolf 3y ago

God I hope your wish never comes true. I don't understand why a device can't just be for consumption of media. Why is everyone trying to force this to become a computer with an annoyingly complicated navigation UX and the rest of the ceaveats when using a complete OS. If I ever have to worry about CPU usage or driver issues on my iPad I will be the one leaving. I bought an iPad NOT to work on it. It is my vacation device so work can never call me and ask me to do something quickly

nicbou 3y ago
I owned a Surface Go for two days before getting an iPad Mini. What made me return it was the file save dialog. I bought a device to read and doodle on, two things I used to do on paper. I browse through my sketches by turning pages, and finish the activity by closing the (note)book. Procreate and Google Play Books work similarly. After a whole day of installing updates and removing bloatware, the Surface wanted me to name and organise my drawings on a filesystem before I could do something else. My goal was to draw and read, not to use a computer. The Surface wanted me to think about files and updates and the device’s state. My iPad Mini is a book with benefits, paper with tricks.
- fomine3 3y ago
  What app did you tried on Surface? OneNote works without treating files. (as it's also available on iPad)
  - goosedragons 3y ago
    Yeah, I'm curious too. If you use a desktop Windows app you will of course run into that kind of thing but there is apps like Sketchable available that are like what's on the iPad. Even on the iPad you can run into file save dialogs, from what I remember Clip Studio Paint on the iPad is for better or worse Clip Studio Paint on the iPad file save dialogs and all.
  - nicbou 3y ago
    I tried a few. OneNote was good for notes but not for art. None of them felt as good as their iPad counterparts, plus I had to deal with Windows.

prime17569 3y ago

This is probably because those developers haven't added support for opening files in place, which has been available since iOS 9. There are a few other things (e.g. the way you call open/save dialogs) that need to be changed if you want to add support as well.

redeeman 3y ago
i like how we are talking about an OS that initially released in 2007, and only got support for "opening files in place" in 2015. What a time to be alive, we can open files in place and all.. gotta give apple credit, while the rest of the world is reduced to lowly CopyOnWrite, they took it one step further, with CopyOnRead.
- Doctor_Fegg 3y ago
  Given that we're in 2023 this seems like a weird hill to die on.
  - redeeman 3y ago
    in 2007 when ios first released, we had the ability to open files without insanities everywhere else. it was total insanity it was not possible, part of the apple thinking that you only do what they 100% say. Who would dare have some video file that isnt in itunes? well certainly not someone the mighty apple cares about. so this lead to movie players also having builtin ftp/smb/nfs clients/servers to be able to access your content, god forbid you could just have files. so yeah, to have a 2007-vintage API be "legacy that cannot open files properly" is a joke, pretending that it is not, is the apple reality distortion field
- scarface_74 3y ago
  What next? Are you going to complain about Windows not supporting more than 8.3 character filenames until 1995?
  - redeeman 3y ago

freediverx 3y ago

There are many limitations with iPadOS, but that isn’t one of them. That issue was resolved years ago, and any remaining limitations are due to third-party developers not keeping up with evolving standards.

klyonrad 3y ago

> until Apple throws a “real” OS at the thing + it still doesn't offer user profiles, so it fails to serve as a family device in the living room

mcfedr 3y ago
Yeah, it's such an obvious use case and so limiting!

mcfedr 3y ago

I had a similar experience, I had iPads years ago, and recently got one again assuming it would be great, but it's just the same as years ago, really needs a proper os upgrade