4 ms·

Wayland as a concept is pretty good. But I would strongly urge anyone from switching to it unless you have nostalgia about the bug-ridden nature of the 2010-er

Wayland as a concept is pretty good. But I would strongly urge anyone from switching to it unless you have nostalgia about the bug-ridden nature of the 2010-era Linux Desktop. I’m still using it, by the way, with Hyprland, but I think I’ll be switching back to X11/i3 soon. Here’s a taste of my experience thus far. Electron apps are a mess. This isn’t (all) wayland’s fault but for issue lists like https://github.com/electron/electron/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+wayland https://github.com/electron/electron/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%... to exist, proponents of wayland would find it in their best interest to tackle the problems given the large number of applications that use electron. Screen sharing doesn’t work. All the old fixes are to be ignored - it has regressed. Again. Font sizes are screwy. VSCode simply doesn’t work. The handy slack shortcuts like ctrl+shift+space for mute that work anywhere only work when slack is focused on Wayland. If you have multiple monitors of different scaling factors, moving a window from one to the other results in it becoming unbearably blurry. wl-clipboard and vim with clipboard=unnamedplus (the only reasonable clipboard) simply don’t work well together, and have a history of bugs going back for FOUR YEARS. At the moment, holding down x or d for repeated deletes is INSANELY slow. As in, I’m used to it working at my repeat rate of ~60 deletes per second and it barely does 3. Every now and then, my cursor becomes huge. Every now and then, it becomes tiny. No idea why, and I’m afraid to ask. Basically, it’s not a comfortable experience.

kaba0 3y ago
> bug-ridden nature of the 2010-era Linux Desktop So where is the non-bug-ridden version from any year? I would like to try. While you are at it, I would also be interested in any GUI, other OS DE, whatever that is bug-free because I have yet to see one.
- i-use-nixos-btw 3y ago
  There’s a subtlety here. Something can still have a few bugs without being bug ridden. It’s the difference between a puddle and a flood. X11 with i3, the setup I’ve used for years, is not bug ridden. There are quirks, but nothing fundamental, nothing that makes it a bad user experience. Wayland, on the other hand, has been a dreadful experience. Some of the most fundamental things, like cursor rendering, window rendering, multiple monitors, clipboard, all have problems doing the basics. To be clear, this is what I actually expected. My disappointment is that people have been preaching about Wayland for years, pushing a stronger and stronger line that it is fantastic, has great support, and is ready to switch to now. That just isn’t the case.
  - kaba0 3y ago
    > Wayland, on the other hand, has been a dreadful experience That sentence is literally meaningless. What wayland? It is still a protocol. Is “the web” bug ridden? Or http? No. A browser can be. So let’s talk about sway or gnome or whatever specifics, otherwise we will just continue to type into the air.
    - i-use-nixos-btw 3y ago
      Hyprland, which I believe is based on Sway but I’m not sure. Either way, most of the problems I’ve been having do not seem to be implementation specific, and instead stem from buggy usage of the protocol. It’s no secret that Electron’s wayland support is an ongoing problem, for instance.
      - kaba0 3y ago
        That’s an ultra niche compositor, so I don’t think it’s fair to conclude anything about the wider protocol. Also, there is a difference between higher level things not working, and something as basic as cursor/window rendering not working - the latter is absolutely stable and working fine since forever.
neurostimulant 3y ago
Electron apps seems to generally work pretty well now with correct arguments, but somehow got glitchy when I attempt to snap them to left/right grid in gnome. I have a wide monitor so this drives me nut. Recently, games performance on wayland seems to regress, either framerates get cut in half, or previously working games suddenly full of graphical issues. Probably nvidia's fault again. I'll see if nvidia 535 driver fixed that.

kaba0 3y ago

> bug-ridden nature of the 2010-era Linux Desktop So where is the non-bug-ridden version from any year? I would like to try. While you are at it, I would also be interested in any GUI, other OS DE, whatever that is bug-free because I have yet to see one.

i-use-nixos-btw 3y ago
There’s a subtlety here. Something can still have a few bugs without being bug ridden. It’s the difference between a puddle and a flood. X11 with i3, the setup I’ve used for years, is not bug ridden. There are quirks, but nothing fundamental, nothing that makes it a bad user experience. Wayland, on the other hand, has been a dreadful experience. Some of the most fundamental things, like cursor rendering, window rendering, multiple monitors, clipboard, all have problems doing the basics. To be clear, this is what I actually expected. My disappointment is that people have been preaching about Wayland for years, pushing a stronger and stronger line that it is fantastic, has great support, and is ready to switch to now. That just isn’t the case.
- kaba0 3y ago
  > Wayland, on the other hand, has been a dreadful experience That sentence is literally meaningless. What wayland? It is still a protocol. Is “the web” bug ridden? Or http? No. A browser can be. So let’s talk about sway or gnome or whatever specifics, otherwise we will just continue to type into the air.
  - i-use-nixos-btw 3y ago
    Hyprland, which I believe is based on Sway but I’m not sure. Either way, most of the problems I’ve been having do not seem to be implementation specific, and instead stem from buggy usage of the protocol. It’s no secret that Electron’s wayland support is an ongoing problem, for instance.
    - kaba0 3y ago
      That’s an ultra niche compositor, so I don’t think it’s fair to conclude anything about the wider protocol. Also, there is a difference between higher level things not working, and something as basic as cursor/window rendering not working - the latter is absolutely stable and working fine since forever.

neurostimulant 3y ago

Electron apps seems to generally work pretty well now with correct arguments, but somehow got glitchy when I attempt to snap them to left/right grid in gnome. I have a wide monitor so this drives me nut. Recently, games performance on wayland seems to regress, either framerates get cut in half, or previously working games suddenly full of graphical issues. Probably nvidia's fault again. I'll see if nvidia 535 driver fixed that.