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I’m a little confused by the reasoning here. You state that peak (commute) traffic is recovering but off-peak is still low, due to WFH? Wouldn’t WFH be impact

by danhak 3y ago

I’m a little confused by the reasoning here. You state that peak (commute) traffic is recovering but off-peak is still low, due to WFH? Wouldn’t WFH be impacting peak hours, with off-peak at all-time-low due to other things like leisure travel?

junofan 3y ago
Also if the decline is all WFH, why have private vehicle miles traveled recovered to pre-pandemic levels?
- verall 3y ago
  Have they recovered in the bay? I thought the whole bay is still much less traffic due to WFH.
- no_wizard 3y ago
  Is that miles total or commuting miles? If its miles total, I would chock it up to people doing more leisure travel, seeing family etc. I don't think RTO is in full swing in such force that its commuter miles, so I'd say you're seeing a big uptick in leisure travel right now, which makes sense, as more and more people are becoming comfortable with this again
- TheBigSalad 3y ago
  Well it can't be ONLY wfh. I think they meant "primarily". But more commuters choosing to drive is impacted by fewer people driving in due to WFH. The traffic was light, so they drove. Now traffic is normal again.
Karrot_Kream 3y ago
I'm not 100% on my reasoning, so I welcome alternate explanations. I suspect that a lot of part-time or odd-hour positions were most impacted by WFH. I'm guessing many of these have gone remote. Moreover, headway was cut back during the pandemic so folks who absolutely had to go into their positions may have invested in a car and don't feel the need to get back on transit because traffic off-peak is not too bad.
- yieldcrv 3y ago
  I’m going to guess that people still want to go to mixers and events and happy hours in SF and those still happen at the same time If thats when peak hours are
  - Karrot_Kream 3y ago
    Speaking for myself, I rarely go to downtown SF now and go out mostly in downtown Oakland these days. The businesses are just as, if not more, vibrant and I have more transit options (BART, bus, BRT, bike) than being forced to take BART across the Bay. Before the pandemic SF downtown had a much more vibrant scene but Oakland has caught up if not exceeded the SF scene. This is just myself though.
- DiggyJohnson 3y ago
  I’ve always thought that the jobs most “susceptible” to WFH are the traditional, 9-5 white collar jobs. Am interested to know if this is correct (outside of software industry, especially).
  - aidenn0 3y ago
    Just a theory, but white-collar jobs that now offer WFH as a perk probably offered flexible hours as a perk pre-COVID. This is conducive to commuting during off-peak hours.
    - PaulHoule 3y ago
      I worked for about a year for a startup based in L.A. where I was the only remote and it seemed they worked roughly 10:30-6:30 to shift their commutes off-peak.
usrusr 3y ago
I was wondering the same. Perhaps peak is all about people on fixed schedules like shop assistants amd the like, whereas those jobs that have switched to WFH Havre far mow flexible hours and many were using that flexibility was to avoid peak hours?
RC_ITR 3y ago
BART used to be so busy that people getting on in downtown stations would back-track to Civic Center/The Mission to actually get a seat across the bay. A similar amount of behavior existed of people doing anything to avoid a peak hour BART train. Now, if you're commuting in, the best times are during rush. BART numbers will always seem insanely low vs. pre-pandemic because they were unsustainable high back then.
- simfree 3y ago
  Instead of treating public transit as an enterprise that should break even, we should consider what removing barriers to access through fare free public transit can do to serve our citizens more effectively. Many transit districts in Washington State have already gone fare free. Removing the barrier of paying helps drive more ridership, particularly on non-peak hours that traditionally see much lower ridership. The rail already exists, increasing it's utilization by will drive economic growth and help municipalities recover and heal the donut hole that was punched in many urban cores by the pandemic.

by danhak 3y ago

junofan 3y ago

Also if the decline is all WFH, why have private vehicle miles traveled recovered to pre-pandemic levels?

verall 3y ago
Have they recovered in the bay? I thought the whole bay is still much less traffic due to WFH.
no_wizard 3y ago
Is that miles total or commuting miles? If its miles total, I would chock it up to people doing more leisure travel, seeing family etc. I don't think RTO is in full swing in such force that its commuter miles, so I'd say you're seeing a big uptick in leisure travel right now, which makes sense, as more and more people are becoming comfortable with this again
TheBigSalad 3y ago
Well it can't be ONLY wfh. I think they meant "primarily". But more commuters choosing to drive is impacted by fewer people driving in due to WFH. The traffic was light, so they drove. Now traffic is normal again.

Karrot_Kream 3y ago

I'm not 100% on my reasoning, so I welcome alternate explanations. I suspect that a lot of part-time or odd-hour positions were most impacted by WFH. I'm guessing many of these have gone remote. Moreover, headway was cut back during the pandemic so folks who absolutely had to go into their positions may have invested in a car and don't feel the need to get back on transit because traffic off-peak is not too bad.

yieldcrv 3y ago
I’m going to guess that people still want to go to mixers and events and happy hours in SF and those still happen at the same time If thats when peak hours are
- Karrot_Kream 3y ago
  Speaking for myself, I rarely go to downtown SF now and go out mostly in downtown Oakland these days. The businesses are just as, if not more, vibrant and I have more transit options (BART, bus, BRT, bike) than being forced to take BART across the Bay. Before the pandemic SF downtown had a much more vibrant scene but Oakland has caught up if not exceeded the SF scene. This is just myself though.
DiggyJohnson 3y ago
I’ve always thought that the jobs most “susceptible” to WFH are the traditional, 9-5 white collar jobs. Am interested to know if this is correct (outside of software industry, especially).
- aidenn0 3y ago
  Just a theory, but white-collar jobs that now offer WFH as a perk probably offered flexible hours as a perk pre-COVID. This is conducive to commuting during off-peak hours.
  - PaulHoule 3y ago
    I worked for about a year for a startup based in L.A. where I was the only remote and it seemed they worked roughly 10:30-6:30 to shift their commutes off-peak.

usrusr 3y ago

I was wondering the same. Perhaps peak is all about people on fixed schedules like shop assistants amd the like, whereas those jobs that have switched to WFH Havre far mow flexible hours and many were using that flexibility was to avoid peak hours?

RC_ITR 3y ago

BART used to be so busy that people getting on in downtown stations would back-track to Civic Center/The Mission to actually get a seat across the bay. A similar amount of behavior existed of people doing anything to avoid a peak hour BART train. Now, if you're commuting in, the best times are during rush. BART numbers will always seem insanely low vs. pre-pandemic because they were unsustainable high back then.

simfree 3y ago
Instead of treating public transit as an enterprise that should break even, we should consider what removing barriers to access through fare free public transit can do to serve our citizens more effectively. Many transit districts in Washington State have already gone fare free. Removing the barrier of paying helps drive more ridership, particularly on non-peak hours that traditionally see much lower ridership. The rail already exists, increasing it's utilization by will drive economic growth and help municipalities recover and heal the donut hole that was punched in many urban cores by the pandemic.