4 ms·

Call me crazy, but as a highly analytical person that has spent 70% of my waking hours in the last five years working on something technical, my social skills a

Call me crazy, but as a highly analytical person that has spent 70% of my waking hours in the last five years working on something technical, my social skills are best when I'm hungover. The logical analytical side of me is diminished and I am much more "normal". I have a much higher rate of success on dates with women when I have a really bad hang over and then a few drinks. It does feel like a lobotomy, and that's fine. If I am in my normal raw intellect, I will begin going deep on some topic thats outside the range of normal human discourse. It will be hard for me to stop, because of my interest. Alcohol removes that to a large degree. Edit: A funny meta observation, the "Peak HN" comment below, and the following conversation, might not have been necessary if I wrote this post very hungover.

hackhackerschor 3y ago
Are you sure you mean hungover?
- ldjkfkdsjnv 3y ago
  Yes. Going from sober -> drunk does not remove my somewhat autist analytical bent. Being hungover, my brain is moving alot slower, less detailed, etc.
hbn 3y ago
I'm the complete opposite, I can barely put a sentence together when I'm hungover. To be fair I can barely put a sentence together when sober either.
- layer8 3y ago
  What’s your current state of soberness?
  - hbn 3y ago
    If you mean at the current moment in time, I'm sober. And it's easier when I'm typing and can edit my sentences as I go. But in day-to-day, trying to explain things or convey my thoughts coherently, I'm pretty bad. I think it's gotten worse in the past few years with how isolated I've been starting with the pandemic.
    - com2kid 3y ago
      > If you mean at the current moment in time, I'm sober. And it's easier when I'm typing and can edit my sentences as I go. But in day-to-day, trying to explain things or convey my thoughts coherently, I'm pretty bad. I think it's gotten worse in the past few years with how isolated I've been starting with the pandemic. Talking is a skill like any other. So, a comparison. You know how you can picture a car in your head but you can't make draw a car unless you've spent time practicing as an artist? That is because connecting our mental representation of "a car" and making our hand draw a car is a skill that requires a lot of training. This is why artists practice drawing still lives, looking at an orange and copying it down to paper with a pencil trains your brain on how to translate the thing that is visually inside your head to what your hand needs to do to re-create it. Well, the same for mental dialogue. Going from "idea in head" to "words coming out of mouth" is a skill that takes practice. There are ways to practice this! Toastmasters is a famous group whose goal is improving this skill, but there are many other routes. I had good luck with table top RPGs, I spent years playing a character who is supposed to be charismatic, and accordingly I had lots of chances to practices being outgoing! We are good at the things we practice doing!
- The_Colonel 3y ago
  Same. A mild buzz doesn't make me significantly stupider, and in some ways increases my social competency. But hungover it's a different story and especially verbal communication is a struggle. These side effects are the main reason I've largely gave up on alcohol. This is exacerbated by the fact that in my 30s, the amount of alcohol needed for a hangover is quite low.
zarakshR 3y ago
> If I am in my normal raw intellect, I will begin going deep on some topic thats outside the range of normal human discourse. It will be hard for me to stop, because of my interest. Alcohol removes that to a large degree. Peak HN.
- giraffe_lady 3y ago
  It's 1985 I am stoned with my roommate hearing this comment. it's 2008 I am on reddit reading this comment. it's 2023 I am on HN reading this comment.
  - jahsome 3y ago
    It's 2040 and BroGPT 7 responds with this to all prompts.
- jcims 3y ago
  The description might be a bit indulgent, but the experience resonates. Having a conversation about flowers and your mind wants to talk about why there seems to be an innate attraction towards the scent of certain flowers. Like what is the electrochemical process that creates sensation in your mind of attraction and beauty and a pleasant experience when a certain set of chemicals bind to receptors in your head. But then you don’t because the last time you did something like that you just got a blank stare, and ‘hmmm!’ and a change in topics.
  - giraffe_lady 3y ago
    There's no brain so big it prevents you from just enjoying the smell of the flower instead.
    - saulpw 3y ago
      Note though that it was a conversation about flowers, possibly at a party with no flowers in sight. Imagine it went like this: jcims: So what kind of hobbies are you into? Bob: I love my garden, I planted several new flowers last weekend in fact. jcims: Oh? What kind of flowers are you growing? Bob: These latest are Lenten roses, I know a lot of people find the smell a bit unpleasant, but I actually prefer it to the zinnias. jcims (sober): Isn't it interesting how there seems to be an innate attraction towards the scent of certain flowers. Like what is the electrochemical process that creates sensation in your mind of attraction and beauty and a pleasant experience when a certain set of chemicals bind to receptors in your head. Bob: I don't know about chemistry, I'm just a gardener. --- Alternately: jcims (tipsy): That's cool! I've never heard of Lentil roses. Do they smell different than real roses? Bob: chuckle Finally, a pleasant party conversation! The last person I talked with must have had a Ph.D. in neurochemistry or something, they started talking about electroreceptors and I just couldn't think of anything smart enough to say.
wehnsdaefflae 3y ago
Not crazy. Same with me. My mom always tells me how much nicer it is talking with me when I'm hungover.
nostromo 3y ago
I prefer my husband's company when he's a bit tired because when he's well rested he can be "too much" -- his energy level, his anxiousness, his sense of humor, are all amplified, sometimes to an annoying degree. I've noticed this with other guys that just need to chill out a bit when socializing -- especially tech folks. It's more about energy level than smartness. No need to be hungover -- maybe just relax a bit, take things slower, talk less, go on fewer (or no) tangents, etc., and you might achieve the same result.
- wjholden 3y ago
  This is a really interesting perspective. I wonder: does intense exercise achieve the same outcome? Fasting? Low-sugar diet?
  - drekipus 3y ago
    Meditation would be the big one. It's an intentional "go slow" mentality
- ldjkfkdsjnv 3y ago
  It might be energy level, I have wondered whether I am overly caffeinated and thats where its coming from. But youre right, theres a "jumpiness". I do think my general lifestyle (many hours of programming) primes my brain for a certain way of working. If I stop coding, and for instance hike all the time, my suspicion is this would go away to some degree.
- anthomtb 3y ago
  > maybe just relax a bit, take things slower I agree with what you are saying about energy levels but take issue with these suggestions. How does an inherently anxious and energetic person "just relax" and "take things slowly"? I mean, the phrase "just relax" generates (for a younger version of me) a thought bubble that would read: I thought I was relaxed!! > talk less, go on fewer (or no) tangents What's worse, someone babbling about something they're excited about? Or sitting in awkward silence because they're mentally keeping score of who's saying more words in the conversation? Again, I am 100% with you on the excess energy levels making someone annoying. I am just looking for actionable, less generic suggestions. To bring it back to the start of your post: > I prefer my husband's company when he's tired How does your husband get tired enough to be tolerable?
RoddaWallPro 3y ago
I relate to this, though perhaps obliquely. I feel far more peaceful and centered when I am hungover. I don't have a thousand things flying around the edges of my brain, nipping at my consciousness. I just _am_. Drinking can do that for me too, but it shuts off so much of my brain that eventually, it's like being what I imagine a dog is. Completely reactive, with almost no higher thinking. Not that that is bad. I enjoy it. If not for how bad it makes me feel physically, I'd probably spend most of my waking hours either drunk or hungover. What that says about me, I hesitate to think about, hah. I also found that in my limited experience with meditation, I could sometimes find that place of tranquility and "simply being". But it was so rare, and the experience of meditation so frustrating and seemingly impossible to progress in, that I gave up. But I still hold that what I am after in meditating is the same thing that I am after in a night of drinking. Single-threadedness, peace, acceptance.
- ldjkfkdsjnv 3y ago
  Yeah the issue is its really unhealthy to drink enough to be hungover multiple times a week. But then the question is, what are we saving ourselves for? Life is happening. I've tried meditation, could never reach a high enough level with it to feel sustained peace/calmness. I should put more effort into it though
bheadmaster 3y ago
You see, -burp- Morty, grandpa is wayyy too smart. I am the smartest man in the universe, Morty, and that sucks, because of the loneliness of nobody ever being able to understand my thoughts. Do you know how -burp- lucky you are, Mor-Morty, that you're as dumb as a rock? Do you how luck you are to be surrounded by people who have the same IQ as you, Morty? Yeah, you're lucky, because to you that is an advantage. You can lead some stupid conversation with some stupid girls and enjoy yourself. Grandpa cannot have that, Morty. That-that is -burp- not a luxury the smartest man in the universe can have. So I drink, to make myself stupid, so I can endure this psychological torture called a conversation with _you_.
newprint 3y ago
I had zero social circle and no significant other in my life, until I started drinking. World opened up for me after I started consuming alcohol. Edit: However, you need to be responsible. Alcohol badly derailed my life once.
- throwaway2037 3y ago
  no significant other in my life, until I started drinking I have heard this from other men. I don't know what to make of it. Please do not read that as me judging you. Thank you to share. That is a tough thing to "say out loud" (on the InnerWebs). My best friend from uni did not start drinking until his 30s. He never had a girlfriend before he drank. Something bothers me so much when I think about it. He is married now and a very decent husband -- really cares about his wife. What if he never started drinking and never met anyone? Sheesh. Assuming hetero-normative for a moment, what do women think about this?
- TecoAndJix 3y ago
  Check out the movie "Another Round" with Mads Mikkelsen [1]. Summary: Four high-school teachers consume alcohol on a daily basis to see how it affects their social and professional lives. In summary, it helped some and hurt others! [1]https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10288566/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10288566/"
colordrops 3y ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/hangovereffect https://www.reddit.com/r/hangovereffect https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7nakg/what-is-the-hangover-effect https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7nakg/what-is-the-hangover-...
- ldjkfkdsjnv 3y ago
  Wow! This comment: "Alex, 30, lives in New York City. He says he has depression, anxiety and undiagnosed ADHD. His experiences sound similar to Dylan’s, with a heavy night of drinking making way for a newfound sense of self. “I was calm, empathetic, emotional, not anxious,” he says. " Is similar to me, even live in nyc and a similar age
gizmo 3y ago
But... this way you end up dating somebody that only likes you when you're hung over. That doesn't sound like a winning strategy to me.
nvy 3y ago
Are you sure it's the raw intellect turning women away and not, you know, unpleasant levels of arrogance?
- ldjkfkdsjnv 3y ago
  haha :) didnt realize this came off so poorly
  - sctb 3y ago
    I didn't read your post as arrogant. You said that, when sober, you tend towards being analytical, technical, and logical. This is your natural tendency in addition to the inertial effect of technical work which you spend most of your time on. To me this all seems like neutral observation.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- nprateem 3y ago
  Probably just bored the crap out of them. Just be fun.
dannyobrien 3y ago
There was a whole subreddit trying to explore why the people in it felt more comfortable and effective when hungover. Someone else may have the link -- with the API locked down, my usual app, Apollo, to find things like this on Reddit no longer works, and Google assumes I want a hangover cure for the search terms I tried.
- dannyobrien 3y ago
  Aha! The answer was further down in this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/hangovereffect/ https://www.reddit.com/r/hangovereffect/
rpastuszak 3y ago
> alcohol removes that to a large degree Sounds like a crutch. What you describe here is a fairly common response by people suffering from social anxiety. I’m not implying that’s you, but it seems like you have the capacity to act the same way without booze so it might be worth to observe how and what you feel when that happens.
lisasays 3y ago
It does feel like a lobotomy, and that's fine. Not sure what to make of a statement like this. But what seems missing in this analysis is that by this point (and it sounds like it's taken you years to get here) you've probably completely forgotten what it's like to just be completely sober and to completely forget about drinking altogether. Which is very different from the low-functioning refactory state (that is -- post-hangover, pre-next-drink) within the cycle of long-term regular alcohol use.
b800h 3y ago
I have what gets called ADD, and found at 17 that I was a much better programmer when hungover, keeping focus all day long and finishing a project. It is somewhat sad that when I excitedly told people about this the next day, that no-one spotted that this was a clear sign of ADD. The ensuing 28 years would probably have been simpler.

hackhackerschor 3y ago

Are you sure you mean hungover?

ldjkfkdsjnv 3y ago
Yes. Going from sober -> drunk does not remove my somewhat autist analytical bent. Being hungover, my brain is moving alot slower, less detailed, etc.

hbn 3y ago

I'm the complete opposite, I can barely put a sentence together when I'm hungover. To be fair I can barely put a sentence together when sober either.

layer8 3y ago
What’s your current state of soberness?
- hbn 3y ago
  If you mean at the current moment in time, I'm sober. And it's easier when I'm typing and can edit my sentences as I go. But in day-to-day, trying to explain things or convey my thoughts coherently, I'm pretty bad. I think it's gotten worse in the past few years with how isolated I've been starting with the pandemic.
  - com2kid 3y ago
    > If you mean at the current moment in time, I'm sober. And it's easier when I'm typing and can edit my sentences as I go. But in day-to-day, trying to explain things or convey my thoughts coherently, I'm pretty bad. I think it's gotten worse in the past few years with how isolated I've been starting with the pandemic. Talking is a skill like any other. So, a comparison. You know how you can picture a car in your head but you can't make draw a car unless you've spent time practicing as an artist? That is because connecting our mental representation of "a car" and making our hand draw a car is a skill that requires a lot of training. This is why artists practice drawing still lives, looking at an orange and copying it down to paper with a pencil trains your brain on how to translate the thing that is visually inside your head to what your hand needs to do to re-create it. Well, the same for mental dialogue. Going from "idea in head" to "words coming out of mouth" is a skill that takes practice. There are ways to practice this! Toastmasters is a famous group whose goal is improving this skill, but there are many other routes. I had good luck with table top RPGs, I spent years playing a character who is supposed to be charismatic, and accordingly I had lots of chances to practices being outgoing! We are good at the things we practice doing!
The_Colonel 3y ago
Same. A mild buzz doesn't make me significantly stupider, and in some ways increases my social competency. But hungover it's a different story and especially verbal communication is a struggle. These side effects are the main reason I've largely gave up on alcohol. This is exacerbated by the fact that in my 30s, the amount of alcohol needed for a hangover is quite low.

zarakshR 3y ago

> If I am in my normal raw intellect, I will begin going deep on some topic thats outside the range of normal human discourse. It will be hard for me to stop, because of my interest. Alcohol removes that to a large degree. Peak HN.

giraffe_lady 3y ago
It's 1985 I am stoned with my roommate hearing this comment. it's 2008 I am on reddit reading this comment. it's 2023 I am on HN reading this comment.
- jahsome 3y ago
  It's 2040 and BroGPT 7 responds with this to all prompts.
jcims 3y ago
The description might be a bit indulgent, but the experience resonates. Having a conversation about flowers and your mind wants to talk about why there seems to be an innate attraction towards the scent of certain flowers. Like what is the electrochemical process that creates sensation in your mind of attraction and beauty and a pleasant experience when a certain set of chemicals bind to receptors in your head. But then you don’t because the last time you did something like that you just got a blank stare, and ‘hmmm!’ and a change in topics.
- giraffe_lady 3y ago
  There's no brain so big it prevents you from just enjoying the smell of the flower instead.
  - saulpw 3y ago
    Note though that it was a conversation about flowers, possibly at a party with no flowers in sight. Imagine it went like this: jcims: So what kind of hobbies are you into? Bob: I love my garden, I planted several new flowers last weekend in fact. jcims: Oh? What kind of flowers are you growing? Bob: These latest are Lenten roses, I know a lot of people find the smell a bit unpleasant, but I actually prefer it to the zinnias. jcims (sober): Isn't it interesting how there seems to be an innate attraction towards the scent of certain flowers. Like what is the electrochemical process that creates sensation in your mind of attraction and beauty and a pleasant experience when a certain set of chemicals bind to receptors in your head. Bob: I don't know about chemistry, I'm just a gardener. --- Alternately: jcims (tipsy): That's cool! I've never heard of Lentil roses. Do they smell different than real roses? Bob: chuckle Finally, a pleasant party conversation! The last person I talked with must have had a Ph.D. in neurochemistry or something, they started talking about electroreceptors and I just couldn't think of anything smart enough to say.

wehnsdaefflae 3y ago

Not crazy. Same with me. My mom always tells me how much nicer it is talking with me when I'm hungover.

nostromo 3y ago

I prefer my husband's company when he's a bit tired because when he's well rested he can be "too much" -- his energy level, his anxiousness, his sense of humor, are all amplified, sometimes to an annoying degree. I've noticed this with other guys that just need to chill out a bit when socializing -- especially tech folks. It's more about energy level than smartness. No need to be hungover -- maybe just relax a bit, take things slower, talk less, go on fewer (or no) tangents, etc., and you might achieve the same result.

wjholden 3y ago
This is a really interesting perspective. I wonder: does intense exercise achieve the same outcome? Fasting? Low-sugar diet?
- drekipus 3y ago
  Meditation would be the big one. It's an intentional "go slow" mentality
ldjkfkdsjnv 3y ago
It might be energy level, I have wondered whether I am overly caffeinated and thats where its coming from. But youre right, theres a "jumpiness". I do think my general lifestyle (many hours of programming) primes my brain for a certain way of working. If I stop coding, and for instance hike all the time, my suspicion is this would go away to some degree.
anthomtb 3y ago
> maybe just relax a bit, take things slower I agree with what you are saying about energy levels but take issue with these suggestions. How does an inherently anxious and energetic person "just relax" and "take things slowly"? I mean, the phrase "just relax" generates (for a younger version of me) a thought bubble that would read: I thought I was relaxed!! > talk less, go on fewer (or no) tangents What's worse, someone babbling about something they're excited about? Or sitting in awkward silence because they're mentally keeping score of who's saying more words in the conversation? Again, I am 100% with you on the excess energy levels making someone annoying. I am just looking for actionable, less generic suggestions. To bring it back to the start of your post: > I prefer my husband's company when he's tired How does your husband get tired enough to be tolerable?

RoddaWallPro 3y ago

I relate to this, though perhaps obliquely. I feel far more peaceful and centered when I am hungover. I don't have a thousand things flying around the edges of my brain, nipping at my consciousness. I just _am_. Drinking can do that for me too, but it shuts off so much of my brain that eventually, it's like being what I imagine a dog is. Completely reactive, with almost no higher thinking. Not that that is bad. I enjoy it. If not for how bad it makes me feel physically, I'd probably spend most of my waking hours either drunk or hungover. What that says about me, I hesitate to think about, hah. I also found that in my limited experience with meditation, I could sometimes find that place of tranquility and "simply being". But it was so rare, and the experience of meditation so frustrating and seemingly impossible to progress in, that I gave up. But I still hold that what I am after in meditating is the same thing that I am after in a night of drinking. Single-threadedness, peace, acceptance.

ldjkfkdsjnv 3y ago
Yeah the issue is its really unhealthy to drink enough to be hungover multiple times a week. But then the question is, what are we saving ourselves for? Life is happening. I've tried meditation, could never reach a high enough level with it to feel sustained peace/calmness. I should put more effort into it though

bheadmaster 3y ago

You see, -burp- Morty, grandpa is wayyy too smart. I am the smartest man in the universe, Morty, and that sucks, because of the loneliness of nobody ever being able to understand my thoughts. Do you know how -burp- lucky you are, Mor-Morty, that you're as dumb as a rock? Do you how luck you are to be surrounded by people who have the same IQ as you, Morty? Yeah, you're lucky, because to you that is an advantage. You can lead some stupid conversation with some stupid girls and enjoy yourself. Grandpa cannot have that, Morty. That-that is -burp- not a luxury the smartest man in the universe can have. So I drink, to make myself stupid, so I can endure this psychological torture called a conversation with _you_.

newprint 3y ago

I had zero social circle and no significant other in my life, until I started drinking. World opened up for me after I started consuming alcohol. Edit: However, you need to be responsible. Alcohol badly derailed my life once.

throwaway2037 3y ago
no significant other in my life, until I started drinking I have heard this from other men. I don't know what to make of it. Please do not read that as me judging you. Thank you to share. That is a tough thing to "say out loud" (on the InnerWebs). My best friend from uni did not start drinking until his 30s. He never had a girlfriend before he drank. Something bothers me so much when I think about it. He is married now and a very decent husband -- really cares about his wife. What if he never started drinking and never met anyone? Sheesh. Assuming hetero-normative for a moment, what do women think about this?
TecoAndJix 3y ago
Check out the movie "Another Round" with Mads Mikkelsen [1]. Summary: Four high-school teachers consume alcohol on a daily basis to see how it affects their social and professional lives. In summary, it helped some and hurt others! [1]https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10288566/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10288566/"

colordrops 3y ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/hangovereffect https://www.reddit.com/r/hangovereffect https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7nakg/what-is-the-hangover-effect https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7nakg/what-is-the-hangover-...

ldjkfkdsjnv 3y ago
Wow! This comment: "Alex, 30, lives in New York City. He says he has depression, anxiety and undiagnosed ADHD. His experiences sound similar to Dylan’s, with a heavy night of drinking making way for a newfound sense of self. “I was calm, empathetic, emotional, not anxious,” he says. " Is similar to me, even live in nyc and a similar age

gizmo 3y ago

But... this way you end up dating somebody that only likes you when you're hung over. That doesn't sound like a winning strategy to me.

nvy 3y ago

Are you sure it's the raw intellect turning women away and not, you know, unpleasant levels of arrogance?

ldjkfkdsjnv 3y ago
haha :) didnt realize this came off so poorly
- sctb 3y ago
  I didn't read your post as arrogant. You said that, when sober, you tend towards being analytical, technical, and logical. This is your natural tendency in addition to the inertial effect of technical work which you spend most of your time on. To me this all seems like neutral observation.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
nprateem 3y ago
Probably just bored the crap out of them. Just be fun.

dannyobrien 3y ago

There was a whole subreddit trying to explore why the people in it felt more comfortable and effective when hungover. Someone else may have the link -- with the API locked down, my usual app, Apollo, to find things like this on Reddit no longer works, and Google assumes I want a hangover cure for the search terms I tried.

dannyobrien 3y ago
Aha! The answer was further down in this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/hangovereffect/ https://www.reddit.com/r/hangovereffect/

rpastuszak 3y ago

> alcohol removes that to a large degree Sounds like a crutch. What you describe here is a fairly common response by people suffering from social anxiety. I’m not implying that’s you, but it seems like you have the capacity to act the same way without booze so it might be worth to observe how and what you feel when that happens.

lisasays 3y ago

It does feel like a lobotomy, and that's fine. Not sure what to make of a statement like this. But what seems missing in this analysis is that by this point (and it sounds like it's taken you years to get here) you've probably completely forgotten what it's like to just be completely sober and to completely forget about drinking altogether. Which is very different from the low-functioning refactory state (that is -- post-hangover, pre-next-drink) within the cycle of long-term regular alcohol use.

b800h 3y ago

I have what gets called ADD, and found at 17 that I was a much better programmer when hungover, keeping focus all day long and finishing a project. It is somewhat sad that when I excitedly told people about this the next day, that no-one spotted that this was a clear sign of ADD. The ensuing 28 years would probably have been simpler.