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> Why should the affected groups, or society at large, accept this? Why shouldn't we band together to try to make things fair in light of this fact? That's exa

> Why should the affected groups, or society at large, accept this? Why shouldn't we band together to try to make things fair in light of this fact? That's exactly what the court just did. It prevented universities from being racist.

Timon3 3y ago
I'm trying to take your reply in good faith, but I'm really not understanding. Can you walk me through your thought process? The earlier discussion was: >>> But people are being treated badly due to their race >> Unfortunately, I do not think you can force racists to stop being racist. Bigotry is perfectly legal. > Why should the affected groups, or society at large, accept this? Why shouldn't we band together to try to make things fair in light of this fact? So the court helped black people in regards to the bigotry of racists by "preventing universities from being racist". Your solution to racism is to treat everyone equally - which in turn means that black people just have to accept the bigotry of racists. So your solution is for them to just suck it up. Am I understanding you correctly?
- MockObject 3y ago
  "Your solution to racism is to treat everyone equally" Yes. This is the logical solution. The way to end X is that everybody stops doing X. It's very clear, simple, and I'm sure you would agree with virtually all values of X.
  - Timon3 3y ago
    Wow, so it really is just "suck it up". Do you really not understand how problematic this line of thought is for those who are being discriminated against? Or do you just think that the only racism in this world is affirmative action, and minorities aren't being discriminated against?
    - MockObject 3y ago
      Not “suck it up.” End it. The exact opposite of what you just characterized. Your thinking on this topic seems very to contain many inversions.
      - Timon3 3y ago
        Why are you ignoring my point? I've brought it up multiple times. Instead of just repeating your position you could, you know, respond to my argument regarding your position.
        MockObject 3y ago
        But you haven’t offered an argument. “Eliminating racial discrimination means eliminating all of it.” Do you think it should be eliminated? Then why are you arguing against its elimination? Why do you claim to think it should be eliminated? Why should I be convinced that you actually believe it should be eliminated?
        Timon3 3y ago
        I will repeat the point once more, please directly engage with it. Earlier in this comment tree the other user wrote: > Unfortunately, I do not think you can force racists to stop being racist. Bigotry is perfectly legal. I agree with this, so the presupposition for the rest of the comment chain is that this statement is agreed upon, unless otherwise specified. I pointed towards this statement multiple times and asked: if this means that minorities will be discriminated against (since the agreed upon statement is that racists will still exist), and the attempt at "positive discrimination" is forbidden, they are simply discriminated against. What is your solution to this problem? How do we help them to no longer face discrimination under your proposed solution? I don't think you have a solution, as you have so far failed to bring one up (even though I asked this question multiple times). So far, your position is equivalent to "they just have to suck it up". Can you finally offer a different position?
        3y ago

Timon3 3y ago

I'm trying to take your reply in good faith, but I'm really not understanding. Can you walk me through your thought process? The earlier discussion was: >>> But people are being treated badly due to their race >> Unfortunately, I do not think you can force racists to stop being racist. Bigotry is perfectly legal. > Why should the affected groups, or society at large, accept this? Why shouldn't we band together to try to make things fair in light of this fact? So the court helped black people in regards to the bigotry of racists by "preventing universities from being racist". Your solution to racism is to treat everyone equally - which in turn means that black people just have to accept the bigotry of racists. So your solution is for them to just suck it up. Am I understanding you correctly?

MockObject 3y ago
"Your solution to racism is to treat everyone equally" Yes. This is the logical solution. The way to end X is that everybody stops doing X. It's very clear, simple, and I'm sure you would agree with virtually all values of X.
- Timon3 3y ago
  Wow, so it really is just "suck it up". Do you really not understand how problematic this line of thought is for those who are being discriminated against? Or do you just think that the only racism in this world is affirmative action, and minorities aren't being discriminated against?
  - MockObject 3y ago
    Not “suck it up.” End it. The exact opposite of what you just characterized. Your thinking on this topic seems very to contain many inversions.
    - Timon3 3y ago
      Why are you ignoring my point? I've brought it up multiple times. Instead of just repeating your position you could, you know, respond to my argument regarding your position.
      - MockObject 3y ago
        But you haven’t offered an argument. “Eliminating racial discrimination means eliminating all of it.” Do you think it should be eliminated? Then why are you arguing against its elimination? Why do you claim to think it should be eliminated? Why should I be convinced that you actually believe it should be eliminated?
        Timon3 3y ago
        I will repeat the point once more, please directly engage with it. Earlier in this comment tree the other user wrote: > Unfortunately, I do not think you can force racists to stop being racist. Bigotry is perfectly legal. I agree with this, so the presupposition for the rest of the comment chain is that this statement is agreed upon, unless otherwise specified. I pointed towards this statement multiple times and asked: if this means that minorities will be discriminated against (since the agreed upon statement is that racists will still exist), and the attempt at "positive discrimination" is forbidden, they are simply discriminated against. What is your solution to this problem? How do we help them to no longer face discrimination under your proposed solution? I don't think you have a solution, as you have so far failed to bring one up (even though I asked this question multiple times). So far, your position is equivalent to "they just have to suck it up". Can you finally offer a different position?
        3y ago