4 ms·

I have inherited nothing from my parents except financial help with my college education. My dad is utterly in debt from funding his 7 children's college educat

by dcow 3y ago

I have inherited nothing from my parents except financial help with my college education. My dad is utterly in debt from funding his 7 children's college educations because he believes (correct or not) that that is how you set your kids up for success. He will likely die barely out of debt. I am white. I have worked for everything I have. I bought an auction property in the low income neighborhood in my city and have invested blood swear and tears and financially to the point where I am in debt for years to come to turn it into a nice property for the neighborhood. I do not take my privileges for granted. Do I deserve your scorn?

polygamous_bat 3y ago
> I have inherited nothing from my parents except financial help with my college education. My dad is utterly in debt from funding his 7 children's college educations... Contradicting yourself much? The whole point of the previous comment was if your father was black he would be much less likely to get the loan in the first place, which would result in, at the very least, crippling college debt for yourself, which would in turn lead to renting until you're ready to pass the ghost.
- dcow 3y ago
  No, the point is I have no traceable lineage to a hoard of wealth amassed by slave owners 6 generations ago that is filling the family coffers as people seem to be implying is true of all white Americans. My family immigrated over here 3 generations ago from shit conditions in a war torn Europe. Furthermore you have no idea my family’s situation and whether my father would or would not have been actually more likely than a black man in a similar situation to “get a loan” (he didn't even get loans like you suggest). And generally your comment doesn’t even apply to my situation it’s cant be reduced in the way you’re trying to argue it can. Also student loans ensure that there isn’t discrimination in who can take out a loan for college. Arguably my dad paid a tax because he didn't have use take out loans and help pay that way.
  - MisterBastahrd 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - dcow 3y ago
      > They came over to this country and immediately had more rights than any black person walking down the street. That's simply not true. Rights are not granted by laws, they're innate. > We know for a fact that this is the case. Can you please point me to the data on this so I can better educate myself? > Student loans also conveniently are non-dischargable except by death. Almost like being enslaved. The point is that complaining about access to loans and concluding that I'm privileged because my dad could have accessed loans easier than a person of color is neither here nor there, because there were (and still are) plenty of programs that give preferential access to financial aid to minorities when I went to college, including but not limited to loans. > What's your father's poor planning have to do with the plight of other people? About as much as the color of my skin has to do with my current situation in life.
      - MisterBastahrd 3y ago
        > That's simply not true. Rights are not granted by laws, they're innate. > Can you please point me to the data on this so I can better educate myself? Ah, I see. You won't even pretend to argue from a position of credibility. Tell me, what rights did women have to vote before the 1920s, or blacks before the mid 60s? The term "inalienable right" is fictitious. You don't have a right in a society unless you or your society can defend it. You SHOULD have the right. It does not mean that you do. > The point is that complaining about access to loans and concluding that I'm privileged because my dad could have accessed loans easier than a person of color is neither here nor there, because there were (and still are) plenty of programs that give preferential access to financial aid to minorities when I went to college, including but not limited to loans. Everybody has access to that aid based on need. Now, as a person who paid every dime of my own college tuition out of my own pocket (and worked 60 hours a week while friends living in the same neighborhood with slightly poorer parents received thousands in grants), I would argue that student aid should not be based on the wealth of the parents at all. You could hypothetically argue that the United Negro College Fund is a racially biased private organization, but then, there's a reason that the fund exists in the first place, and it's the same reason that HBCUs exist, BET exists, In Living Color existed, etc, etc. Racism has not gone away. Racial biases against people of color has not gone away. Why should attempts to mitigate them? > About as much as the color of my skin has to do with my current situation in life. This is not about you. This has never been about you. This is about the nation righting a wrong. You have benefitted from this, indirectly, without paying anything into it. The descendants of slaves are not so lucky.
- orangepurple 3y ago
  He didn't get a loan. His father paid out of pocket, massively harming his own finances to help his children.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    Some would probably argue that having a father who was involved with his life is itself white privilege.
    - dcow 3y ago
      And they would be almost offensively wrong about that.
erenyeager 3y ago
But your father benefited from being part of a majority group who had its culture imposed on others or at least wasn’t suppressed itself. The elites and people who wrote laws were largely from the larger group of white people. Yes there is economic differences, but this is true for any society the elites are generally wealthy. But your father would benefit from or at least not be impeded by this white cultural dominance that was imposed.
- dcow 3y ago
  Not in my father's lifetime either. And his father is a WWII vet who literally spent most of his "youth" stopping Nazis from killing Jews. Maybe my great grandfather lived in a time where he may have indirectly benefitted from the active segregation of blacks (ignoring that he didn't live in a problematic area), but he died before I was born. You can't just propagate forward and say well you are guilty because your dad was guilty because his dad was guilty because his grandpa was white in a time where segregation still existed in the south. It literally doesn't make any sense. Harboring that type of animosity towards one group of people based on their skin color is the definition of racism. Reducing individuals rich lived experiences to that of their skin color is the definition of racism.
  - erenyeager 3y ago
    Let me explain to you, by virtue of being part of a majority culture or dominant culture, your white father already benefits. His ways and norms and cultures and mores are the “default”. He gains a leg up already by not being discriminated against like the marginalized people in society. You benefit from your own ancestors’ benefits if they acquired wealth or at least didn’t pass on trauma to you… but I’m not even talking about the sins of your ancestors applying to you (that’s a very Christian concept btw). I’m saying you benefit now and your father benefited then from being part of a majority group. As an example, it is very common in US culture to make eye contact in business, but in other cultures this is not the norm and even considered rude or wrong. Many people live in the US who come from Asian cultures where this is the case. When white Americans try to force people to make eye contact and think it is about “respect” they are completely enforcing their way on others and this can lead to marginalization. Another example, handshakes. Men and women in many cultures and religions do not shake hands because of gender differences, and this is often a matter of respect and beliefs. When white Americans or Europeans try to force people from opposite genders to handshake, even when this is against the way of life for other individuals, this is a form of oppression. And it’s not even far fetched to say oppression exists in handshakes… in many news articles there have been cases where European countries cancelled citizenships or deported people based on someone’s refusal to handshake the opposite gender because of the cultural and religious beliefs.

by dcow 3y ago

polygamous_bat 3y ago

> I have inherited nothing from my parents except financial help with my college education. My dad is utterly in debt from funding his 7 children's college educations... Contradicting yourself much? The whole point of the previous comment was if your father was black he would be much less likely to get the loan in the first place, which would result in, at the very least, crippling college debt for yourself, which would in turn lead to renting until you're ready to pass the ghost.

dcow 3y ago
No, the point is I have no traceable lineage to a hoard of wealth amassed by slave owners 6 generations ago that is filling the family coffers as people seem to be implying is true of all white Americans. My family immigrated over here 3 generations ago from shit conditions in a war torn Europe. Furthermore you have no idea my family’s situation and whether my father would or would not have been actually more likely than a black man in a similar situation to “get a loan” (he didn't even get loans like you suggest). And generally your comment doesn’t even apply to my situation it’s cant be reduced in the way you’re trying to argue it can. Also student loans ensure that there isn’t discrimination in who can take out a loan for college. Arguably my dad paid a tax because he didn't have use take out loans and help pay that way.
- MisterBastahrd 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - dcow 3y ago
    > They came over to this country and immediately had more rights than any black person walking down the street. That's simply not true. Rights are not granted by laws, they're innate. > We know for a fact that this is the case. Can you please point me to the data on this so I can better educate myself? > Student loans also conveniently are non-dischargable except by death. Almost like being enslaved. The point is that complaining about access to loans and concluding that I'm privileged because my dad could have accessed loans easier than a person of color is neither here nor there, because there were (and still are) plenty of programs that give preferential access to financial aid to minorities when I went to college, including but not limited to loans. > What's your father's poor planning have to do with the plight of other people? About as much as the color of my skin has to do with my current situation in life.
    - MisterBastahrd 3y ago
      > That's simply not true. Rights are not granted by laws, they're innate. > Can you please point me to the data on this so I can better educate myself? Ah, I see. You won't even pretend to argue from a position of credibility. Tell me, what rights did women have to vote before the 1920s, or blacks before the mid 60s? The term "inalienable right" is fictitious. You don't have a right in a society unless you or your society can defend it. You SHOULD have the right. It does not mean that you do. > The point is that complaining about access to loans and concluding that I'm privileged because my dad could have accessed loans easier than a person of color is neither here nor there, because there were (and still are) plenty of programs that give preferential access to financial aid to minorities when I went to college, including but not limited to loans. Everybody has access to that aid based on need. Now, as a person who paid every dime of my own college tuition out of my own pocket (and worked 60 hours a week while friends living in the same neighborhood with slightly poorer parents received thousands in grants), I would argue that student aid should not be based on the wealth of the parents at all. You could hypothetically argue that the United Negro College Fund is a racially biased private organization, but then, there's a reason that the fund exists in the first place, and it's the same reason that HBCUs exist, BET exists, In Living Color existed, etc, etc. Racism has not gone away. Racial biases against people of color has not gone away. Why should attempts to mitigate them? > About as much as the color of my skin has to do with my current situation in life. This is not about you. This has never been about you. This is about the nation righting a wrong. You have benefitted from this, indirectly, without paying anything into it. The descendants of slaves are not so lucky.
orangepurple 3y ago
He didn't get a loan. His father paid out of pocket, massively harming his own finances to help his children.
- bombcar 3y ago
  Some would probably argue that having a father who was involved with his life is itself white privilege.
  - dcow 3y ago
    And they would be almost offensively wrong about that.

erenyeager 3y ago

But your father benefited from being part of a majority group who had its culture imposed on others or at least wasn’t suppressed itself. The elites and people who wrote laws were largely from the larger group of white people. Yes there is economic differences, but this is true for any society the elites are generally wealthy. But your father would benefit from or at least not be impeded by this white cultural dominance that was imposed.

dcow 3y ago
Not in my father's lifetime either. And his father is a WWII vet who literally spent most of his "youth" stopping Nazis from killing Jews. Maybe my great grandfather lived in a time where he may have indirectly benefitted from the active segregation of blacks (ignoring that he didn't live in a problematic area), but he died before I was born. You can't just propagate forward and say well you are guilty because your dad was guilty because his dad was guilty because his grandpa was white in a time where segregation still existed in the south. It literally doesn't make any sense. Harboring that type of animosity towards one group of people based on their skin color is the definition of racism. Reducing individuals rich lived experiences to that of their skin color is the definition of racism.
- erenyeager 3y ago
  Let me explain to you, by virtue of being part of a majority culture or dominant culture, your white father already benefits. His ways and norms and cultures and mores are the “default”. He gains a leg up already by not being discriminated against like the marginalized people in society. You benefit from your own ancestors’ benefits if they acquired wealth or at least didn’t pass on trauma to you… but I’m not even talking about the sins of your ancestors applying to you (that’s a very Christian concept btw). I’m saying you benefit now and your father benefited then from being part of a majority group. As an example, it is very common in US culture to make eye contact in business, but in other cultures this is not the norm and even considered rude or wrong. Many people live in the US who come from Asian cultures where this is the case. When white Americans try to force people to make eye contact and think it is about “respect” they are completely enforcing their way on others and this can lead to marginalization. Another example, handshakes. Men and women in many cultures and religions do not shake hands because of gender differences, and this is often a matter of respect and beliefs. When white Americans or Europeans try to force people from opposite genders to handshake, even when this is against the way of life for other individuals, this is a form of oppression. And it’s not even far fetched to say oppression exists in handshakes… in many news articles there have been cases where European countries cancelled citizenships or deported people based on someone’s refusal to handshake the opposite gender because of the cultural and religious beliefs.