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They never run these experiments right and this one looks to be no different. What they choose as "Black" names are those associated with lower class blacks bu
by treis 3y ago
They never run these experiments right and this one looks to be no different. What they choose as "Black" names are those associated with lower class blacks but they do not do the same with "White" names. In this case, they use names like Latonya for blacks and Heather for whites. You never see them use names like Cletus or Billy Bob or other names associated with lower class whites.
- Volundr 3y ago> What they choose as "Black" names are those associated with lower class blacks but they do not do the same with "White" names. In this case, they use names like Latonya for blacks and Heather for whites. Is Latonya associated with lower class the way Cletus is? I honestly don't know, and I'd be surprised if most of the people hiring did. What are some "black" names not associated with lower class? My sneaking suspicion (without evidence) is that "black" names in general are more likely to be associated with lower class and to escape those connotations one would have to avoid the more ethnic names, but I'm open to being educated on this point.
- treis 3y agoTraditional African/Arabic names. Jamaal, Aisha, Hakeem, etc.
- UncleMeat 3y agoIf black-coded names are more strongly associated with being lower class in spite of data demonstrating that they actually have the same class distributions as white-coded names then that is racism.
- thworp 3y agoIt would be quite illustrative to have had the same experiment run in the late 19th/early 20th century with southern Italian and Irish peasant names.
- eli 3y agoThis is incorrect. The names in the NBER study were drawn from actual birth certificate data correlated with race. It was not a subjective choice from researchers. Latonya was used because Latonya was the first name given to 4.7% of the black female babies born during the study period. Just like Allison was 4.7% of white female babies in the same data. If you perceive common African American names as lower class than equally common white names, I believe that's part of what the study is trying to demonstrate and not a flaw of its design.
- saltcured 3y agoI am hesitant to wade in here. I am not asserting anything about the actual study, but just observing this thread. You seem to be ignoring the earlier statistical complaint by the other poster. They are implying a null hypothesis where names signal socioeconomic status and discrimination may be on that status rather than race. To test for this, you cannot start with unequally characterized populations (black and white) and compare equally popular names from each population. You need to first stratify by socioeconomic status and then draw popular names from equivalent sub-populations. E.g. equally popular black and white names among babies born to households with lowest quintile income and high school as the parents' terminal degrees; equally popular black and white names among babies born to households of middle quintile income and 4-year college degrees; etc.
- eli 3y agoI don't think it's even relevant. Hiring practices that are based on class discrimination but result in racial discrimination can still be racist even if that isn't their intent. But more to the point, racial discrimination has been replicated by many studies constructed in different ways. A famous 1978 study found discrimination when sending equivalent resumes that had a headshot of either a white or black person attached. Other studies have looked at including extracurricular activities that imply a certain race.
- hedora 3y agoYes, but this sort of gotcha study is missing the fact that any merit-based system will discriminate against minorities that are not given a proper education. Explicitly filtering by race is bad. However, if it leads to the same outcome as filtering by qualifications, then forcing people to switch hiring practices doesn’t actually improve anything. The blame shouldn’t be on the hiring process, but instead (at least in the US) by the politicians that have set up our cities and schools to be systematically racist. (I still think this is a bad SCOTUS ruling, to be clear.)
- UncleMeat 3y agoThe Emily and Jamal paper explicitly accounts for this by controlling for parent's education level. There's a whole section on this.