5 ms·

It's worth bearing in mind that if affirmative action helped his father become a doctor, it also prevented someone else's father from becoming a doctor. I wonde

It's worth bearing in mind that if affirmative action helped his father become a doctor, it also prevented someone else's father from becoming a doctor. I wonder what that person could have achieved.

hondo77 3y ago
No, it means it prevented someone else's father from attending that school. There are others. That's why you apply to more than one.
- Maxion 3y ago
  In the end, higher education is a scarce resource. Making it harder for group X to get in is absolutely discrimination, and does reduce the amount of people from group X who can attain higher education. Affirmative Action is talked about as positive discrimination, but it is still discrimination none-the-less.
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    > Affirmative Action is talked about as positive discrimination, but it is still discrimination none-the-less. Every decision is discrimination. Basis and purpose is what matters.
    - Maxion 3y ago
      > Every decision is discrimination. Basis and purpose is what matters. That is true, which is why it is illegal in my country to discriminate based on things that you are. In my country, we value equality and believe that everyone should be treated fairly and without discrimination. Laws are in place to protect individuals from discrimination based on factors such as race, gender, religion, age, disability, and other protected characteristics. Discrimination based on who you are, such as your inherent traits or characteristics, is considered unjust and contrary to the principles of equality. The focus should be on a person's abilities, qualifications, and merits rather than factors that they have no control over.
      - cadlin 3y ago
        There's a saying in my country. "The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread."
        peterfirefly 3y ago
        I doubt the poor likes having their bread stolen.
        Der_Einzige 3y ago
        The poor are overwhelmingly the victims of petty crime. The rich can live in gated communities and afford security systems.
        peterfirefly 3y ago
        Or even a small private army for their protection. The poor have to rely on the mercy of the law, the police, and the courts. They don't like having their things stolen, they don't like being accosted in the street, they don't like disorderly conduct around them -- but they don't have nice villas or townhouses to retire to. I don't think Anatole France really had thought things through when he wrote that quote...
        anthk 3y ago
        That's poverty related, not race. Keeping fighting over the skin color instead of joining forces together against these money-addicted thugs.
        Maxion 3y ago
        There aren't any beggars or any people sleeping under bridges in my country who don't want to do that themselves. We have social security for everyone, and homeless shelters for those who cannot behave well enough to not be evicted from apartments.
        3y ago
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - fwungy 3y ago
    What if Group X has their own country where they will get that preference but Group Y is native born and gets a taint? The top class of Group Y will be fine. It's the lower ranks of Group Y who lose out to Group X and the higher ranks of Group Y who cement their own status by cutting off their native competition.
Maxion 3y ago
As someone not from the US, this whole Affirmative Actions seems to just be reversed racism. I.e. in the end more-or-less still unfair. Better to just remove race all together, and e.g. require college admissions by law to be judged without knowing the applicants name or ethnicity. To me as an outsider, the US focuses wayyyyy to much on race. Race really does not matter, and no matter how much the US claims to be racism free, the degree to which it is focused on just proves that the US isn't free of racism. Even asking for ones race or ethnicity in my country would be considered descriminatory as there can be no purpose for collecting that information that isn't descriminatory. Discriminating based on race (among other things) is forbidden in the constitution, and that is absolute.
- AlgorithmicTime 3y ago
  > Affirmative Actions seems to just be reversed racism. I.e. in the end more-or-less still unfair. It's not even reversed racism, it's just plain old racism. The only difference is the targets of the racism are European descended and Asian descended people instead of African and Latin American descended people.
- 1234letshaveatw 3y ago
  This post reeks of smugness. I hope you aren't from western Europe, as you can easily see that there is discrimination based on race with regards to eg policing- where crimes committed by certain individuals of a protected status aren't even allowed to be reported on. And FYI- equality is also enshrined in the US constitution, but constitutions are (universally) subject to interpretation
- MisterBastahrd 3y ago
  If it were absolute, then affirmative action would never have been necessary in the first place.
  - peterfirefly 3y ago
    They weren't...
- 3y ago
toofy 3y ago
in addition to this, in this scenario, it’s worth bearing in mind that they both should have achieved their dreams.
foogazi 3y ago
Yes - due to scarcity we get zero sum outcomes

It's worth bearing in mind that if affirmative action helped his father become a doctor, it also prevented someone else's father from becoming a doctor. I wonder what that person could have achieved.

hondo77 3y ago

No, it means it prevented someone else's father from attending that school. There are others. That's why you apply to more than one.

Maxion 3y ago
In the end, higher education is a scarce resource. Making it harder for group X to get in is absolutely discrimination, and does reduce the amount of people from group X who can attain higher education. Affirmative Action is talked about as positive discrimination, but it is still discrimination none-the-less.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > Affirmative Action is talked about as positive discrimination, but it is still discrimination none-the-less. Every decision is discrimination. Basis and purpose is what matters.
  - Maxion 3y ago
    > Every decision is discrimination. Basis and purpose is what matters. That is true, which is why it is illegal in my country to discriminate based on things that you are. In my country, we value equality and believe that everyone should be treated fairly and without discrimination. Laws are in place to protect individuals from discrimination based on factors such as race, gender, religion, age, disability, and other protected characteristics. Discrimination based on who you are, such as your inherent traits or characteristics, is considered unjust and contrary to the principles of equality. The focus should be on a person's abilities, qualifications, and merits rather than factors that they have no control over.
    - cadlin 3y ago
      There's a saying in my country. "The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread."
      - peterfirefly 3y ago
        I doubt the poor likes having their bread stolen.
        Der_Einzige 3y ago
        The poor are overwhelmingly the victims of petty crime. The rich can live in gated communities and afford security systems.
        peterfirefly 3y ago
        Or even a small private army for their protection. The poor have to rely on the mercy of the law, the police, and the courts. They don't like having their things stolen, they don't like being accosted in the street, they don't like disorderly conduct around them -- but they don't have nice villas or townhouses to retire to. I don't think Anatole France really had thought things through when he wrote that quote...
      - anthk 3y ago
        That's poverty related, not race. Keeping fighting over the skin color instead of joining forces together against these money-addicted thugs.
      - Maxion 3y ago
        There aren't any beggars or any people sleeping under bridges in my country who don't want to do that themselves. We have social security for everyone, and homeless shelters for those who cannot behave well enough to not be evicted from apartments.
        3y ago
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- fwungy 3y ago
  What if Group X has their own country where they will get that preference but Group Y is native born and gets a taint? The top class of Group Y will be fine. It's the lower ranks of Group Y who lose out to Group X and the higher ranks of Group Y who cement their own status by cutting off their native competition.

Maxion 3y ago

As someone not from the US, this whole Affirmative Actions seems to just be reversed racism. I.e. in the end more-or-less still unfair. Better to just remove race all together, and e.g. require college admissions by law to be judged without knowing the applicants name or ethnicity. To me as an outsider, the US focuses wayyyyy to much on race. Race really does not matter, and no matter how much the US claims to be racism free, the degree to which it is focused on just proves that the US isn't free of racism. Even asking for ones race or ethnicity in my country would be considered descriminatory as there can be no purpose for collecting that information that isn't descriminatory. Discriminating based on race (among other things) is forbidden in the constitution, and that is absolute.

AlgorithmicTime 3y ago
> Affirmative Actions seems to just be reversed racism. I.e. in the end more-or-less still unfair. It's not even reversed racism, it's just plain old racism. The only difference is the targets of the racism are European descended and Asian descended people instead of African and Latin American descended people.
1234letshaveatw 3y ago
This post reeks of smugness. I hope you aren't from western Europe, as you can easily see that there is discrimination based on race with regards to eg policing- where crimes committed by certain individuals of a protected status aren't even allowed to be reported on. And FYI- equality is also enshrined in the US constitution, but constitutions are (universally) subject to interpretation
MisterBastahrd 3y ago
If it were absolute, then affirmative action would never have been necessary in the first place.
- peterfirefly 3y ago
  They weren't...
3y ago

toofy 3y ago

in addition to this, in this scenario, it’s worth bearing in mind that they both should have achieved their dreams.

foogazi 3y ago

Yes - due to scarcity we get zero sum outcomes