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He wonders because there’s been systemic sustained racial discrimination for the benefit of people of his race. It’s one of the insidious and corrosive ways af

He wonders because there’s been systemic sustained racial discrimination for the benefit of people of his race. It’s one of the insidious and corrosive ways affirmative action undermines the accomplishments of its potential beneficiaries.

kenjackson 3y ago
Do white people in general feel that way because of systemic sustained racial discrimination for their benefit? I get what you’re saying, but racial discrimination has worked against Latinos and Blacks for so long and in so many facets of life — you don’t find it odd that this singular event of college admissions trumps everything else?
- Auracle 3y ago
  Most white/Asian people (especially men) living now haven’t really had any “systemic” advantages. It’s been the opposite for a while now. If you want to argue non-systemic, then maybe. There will always be some racist people out there, whether it’s white people favoring white people or black people favoring black people.
  - kenjackson 3y ago
    This is an oft debated topic. Some possible examples of system advantages include family wealth. Blacks historically weren't allowed to have jobs that paid, or were paid less than whites for the same work. Or weren't allowed to own real estate. Or weren't given access to the same loans (including federally subsidized loans). Even as early as this year there have been cases of discrimination relating to real estate and race. So as a white male, when you inherit your parent's house, that's system advantage built from advantages that most blacks couldn't benefit from. Additionally, where you live and proximity to better schools. Blacks in many cases weren't allowed to move into certain neighborhoods. Busing attemnpted (horribly) to compensate, but even that now is largely no longer done. Blacks simply tend to go to worse schools by almost every metric (including total funding). Health care is another example, where most research has been done for white ethnicities. And there is still discrimination in how health care is administered. And health insurance coverage is still more difficult for Blacks to get, and they often pay more for it. These are a few examples of "systemic" discrimination that benefits white people. There are literally books written about this if you do want to research it yourself.
    - mantas 3y ago
      What about people who come from families who immigrated into US very recently? On both ends of affirmative action. Why would sub-Saharan african immigrant get a preferential treatment while eastern european one wouldn’t?
    - prottog 3y ago
      > Or weren't given access to the same loans (including federally subsidized loans) I'm not sure which time period you're talking about, but if it's the Boston Fed 1992 research on mortgage loans, then it has had legitimate academic challenges to its methodology. > So as a white male, when you inherit your parent's house The same advantage goes to a black male who inherits his parent's house, and the same disadvantage to anyone of any color who did not inherit a house. > where most research has been done for white ethnicities The US was nearly 90% white as recently as 1960, and was 75% white as of the 2000 census, so of course most research that has been done in the past was done with white research subjects. Ultimately, nobody serious rejects the fact that there was past de jure racial discrimination against blacks in this country. What many people challenge is the notion that present de jure discrimination is the only way to remedy past de jure discrimination.
      - kenjackson 3y ago
        > I'm not sure which time period you're talking about, but if it's the Boston Fed 1992 research on mortgage loans, then it has had legitimate academic challenges to its methodology. I was referring to redlining. See https://www.npr.org/2017/05/03/526655831/a-forgotten-history-of-how-the-u-s-government-segregated-america https://www.npr.org/2017/05/03/526655831/a-forgotten-history... > The same advantage goes to a black male who inherits his parent's house, and the same disadvantage to anyone of any color who did not inherit a house. Of course, and any difference in equity associated with the house. Around 75% of whites own a home versus 45% of blacks. And as you know -- homeownership is the single largest source of wealth for most people in the US. > The US was nearly 90% white as recently as 1960, and was 75% white as of the 2000 census, so of course most research that has been done in the past was done with white research subjects. Of course. I'm talking about proportional representation. See https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4670264/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4670264/ > Ultimately, nobody serious rejects the fact that there was past de jure racial discrimination against blacks in this country. What many people challenge is the notion that present de jure discrimination is the only way to remedy past de jure discrimination. The person I was responding to seemed to be making that assertion. And I never said that discrimination was the only way to remedy past discrimination. The part that's disheartening is that so many people are so up in arms about affirmative action -- and how its discriminatory. But consider everything else we discussed (and there's a lot more) as having no real impact. I mean, why are we even talking about it...
- dumpsterlid 3y ago
  [dead]
- athenaRising 3y ago
  Like many white americans, my ancestors immigrated after Jim Crow and redlining were abolished
uoaei 3y ago
The opposite was true for the entire time affirmative action was not in place. Hindsight doesn't make history less relevant for our present for addressing intergenerational inequities, just like foresight-blindness doesn't make our present actions less relevant for our future. It's a hard problem.
saddd 3y ago
Hispanic isn't a race.

kenjackson 3y ago

Do white people in general feel that way because of systemic sustained racial discrimination for their benefit? I get what you’re saying, but racial discrimination has worked against Latinos and Blacks for so long and in so many facets of life — you don’t find it odd that this singular event of college admissions trumps everything else?

Auracle 3y ago
Most white/Asian people (especially men) living now haven’t really had any “systemic” advantages. It’s been the opposite for a while now. If you want to argue non-systemic, then maybe. There will always be some racist people out there, whether it’s white people favoring white people or black people favoring black people.
- kenjackson 3y ago
  This is an oft debated topic. Some possible examples of system advantages include family wealth. Blacks historically weren't allowed to have jobs that paid, or were paid less than whites for the same work. Or weren't allowed to own real estate. Or weren't given access to the same loans (including federally subsidized loans). Even as early as this year there have been cases of discrimination relating to real estate and race. So as a white male, when you inherit your parent's house, that's system advantage built from advantages that most blacks couldn't benefit from. Additionally, where you live and proximity to better schools. Blacks in many cases weren't allowed to move into certain neighborhoods. Busing attemnpted (horribly) to compensate, but even that now is largely no longer done. Blacks simply tend to go to worse schools by almost every metric (including total funding). Health care is another example, where most research has been done for white ethnicities. And there is still discrimination in how health care is administered. And health insurance coverage is still more difficult for Blacks to get, and they often pay more for it. These are a few examples of "systemic" discrimination that benefits white people. There are literally books written about this if you do want to research it yourself.
  - mantas 3y ago
    What about people who come from families who immigrated into US very recently? On both ends of affirmative action. Why would sub-Saharan african immigrant get a preferential treatment while eastern european one wouldn’t?
  - prottog 3y ago
    > Or weren't given access to the same loans (including federally subsidized loans) I'm not sure which time period you're talking about, but if it's the Boston Fed 1992 research on mortgage loans, then it has had legitimate academic challenges to its methodology. > So as a white male, when you inherit your parent's house The same advantage goes to a black male who inherits his parent's house, and the same disadvantage to anyone of any color who did not inherit a house. > where most research has been done for white ethnicities The US was nearly 90% white as recently as 1960, and was 75% white as of the 2000 census, so of course most research that has been done in the past was done with white research subjects. Ultimately, nobody serious rejects the fact that there was past de jure racial discrimination against blacks in this country. What many people challenge is the notion that present de jure discrimination is the only way to remedy past de jure discrimination.
    - kenjackson 3y ago
      > I'm not sure which time period you're talking about, but if it's the Boston Fed 1992 research on mortgage loans, then it has had legitimate academic challenges to its methodology. I was referring to redlining. See https://www.npr.org/2017/05/03/526655831/a-forgotten-history-of-how-the-u-s-government-segregated-america https://www.npr.org/2017/05/03/526655831/a-forgotten-history... > The same advantage goes to a black male who inherits his parent's house, and the same disadvantage to anyone of any color who did not inherit a house. Of course, and any difference in equity associated with the house. Around 75% of whites own a home versus 45% of blacks. And as you know -- homeownership is the single largest source of wealth for most people in the US. > The US was nearly 90% white as recently as 1960, and was 75% white as of the 2000 census, so of course most research that has been done in the past was done with white research subjects. Of course. I'm talking about proportional representation. See https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4670264/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4670264/ > Ultimately, nobody serious rejects the fact that there was past de jure racial discrimination against blacks in this country. What many people challenge is the notion that present de jure discrimination is the only way to remedy past de jure discrimination. The person I was responding to seemed to be making that assertion. And I never said that discrimination was the only way to remedy past discrimination. The part that's disheartening is that so many people are so up in arms about affirmative action -- and how its discriminatory. But consider everything else we discussed (and there's a lot more) as having no real impact. I mean, why are we even talking about it...
dumpsterlid 3y ago
[dead]
athenaRising 3y ago
Like many white americans, my ancestors immigrated after Jim Crow and redlining were abolished

uoaei 3y ago

The opposite was true for the entire time affirmative action was not in place. Hindsight doesn't make history less relevant for our present for addressing intergenerational inequities, just like foresight-blindness doesn't make our present actions less relevant for our future. It's a hard problem.

saddd 3y ago

Hispanic isn't a race.