3 ms·

vscode is an Electron app and is great and more responsive than its "native" competitor apps from JetBrains.

by jupp0r 3y ago

JohnFen 3y ago
That's damning with faint praise, though, isn't it?
- jupp0r 3y ago
  Is it? I'm pretty happy with vscode. I realize that if you actually measure responsiveness there are better options, but subjectively I'm happy while other "IDEs" are completely unusable for me (Visual Studio, JetBrains IDEs, Eclipse, ...).
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    VSCode isn't an IDE, really, so there is a bit of apples and oranges here. But that said... I meant that comparing VSCode to the likes of JetBrains products and Eclipse isn't meaningful because JetBrains and Eclipse are fairly terrible in terms of performance and system load. Comparing to native programs is more appropriate. Visual Studio is a native program, true, but I think it's a terrible one. All that said, the IDE product space has become awful overall, and I struggle to find a modern good one. So, yeah...
wrapperup 3y ago
JetBrains' IDEs are very heavyweight, it's apples to oranges. And while there is some native code in them, they're still driven by the JVM mostly. There is fleet, but it's not an improvement to vscode at all IMO. How about vscode vs sublime, neovim, or any other native text editor with LSP support? vscode is slow comparatively.
skydhash 3y ago
VS Code is primarily an editor, while JetBrains's products are IDEs. You can add extensions to make VS Code more an IDE. And I'd like to see benchmarks proving your point. If you're using VS Code as an editor, others like Sublime Text, Notepad++, Kate and TextMate make it seem very slow.
- jupp0r 3y ago
  If your definition of IDE is that everything has to be done using menus and that it needs to be super slow, you are right. If you look at actual functionality then VSCode is as much of an IDE as Eclipse.
  - vladvasiliu 3y ago
    I don't know about slow, IntelliJ is plenty fast on my "utlrabook" with a basic CPU. But you're wrong on the menu side. They have keyboard shortcuts for everything. And you can program your own if you don't like the provided ones.
  - skydhash 3y ago
    The actual slow part is the source code analysis (that is quite robust). Apart from that, I've never noticed any real slowness. I have an M1 MBA and WebStorm is quite responsive. I've not touched Eclipse since 2015, but I remember it was fast even then.
- jmhammond 3y ago
  I mean, it’s faster than Emacs on my Mac m1.
SAI_Peregrinus 3y ago
Until you install the enough addons to VSCode to give it the same functionality JetBrains products have out of the box, then it gets slower.
tracker1 3y ago
In fairness, the core of VS Code is really well-crafted highly performant code. It was designed to be fast and to work for a web integrated code editor from the start. After trying Atom and Brackets, I almost didn't touch VS Code when it came out, I'm glad I did decide to try it as I really do like it. Of course most Electron apps don't have near the same level of effort or foresight when it comes to performance. Discord probably the second most common electron app, and Teams being third. Both of which, at the very least, have issues. Some could be overcome, or at least be more consistent with WASM built controllers, but that whole space needs some maturing and improved tooling. I've played with Tauri and Yew and think it's pretty nifty, but there's a lot of work to getting parity with say React+MUI. React+MUI itself is pretty good. But even then, on a relatively large team with some relatively inexperienced devs, you can wind up with dependency trees that are insane, huge and slow. Taking that and going through the extra hurdles that the likes of Electron, Tauri or others add is burdonsome to say the least. It can be very nice, but usually isn't. And while I empathize with the teams using Electron, I can even support the ideas. In the end, it's the outcome that matters. I'm not one of the never-electron types. But I also recognize the issues. I use Tabby for my terminal, which is fast enough, but still takes 3-4 seconds to load. I use VS Code which is usually a couple seconds as well. It drops off dramatically from there. There are massive advantages a browser renderer offers... it gets all taken away by importing whatever library comes up in your npm search for any given thing.
- kjellsbells 3y ago
  > the core of VS Code is really well-crafted highly performant code. It was designed to be fast and to work for a web integrated code editor from the start. Seems to me this is kinda the core of the matter. VSCode written by developers, for developers, working in the domain of...development. It's almost a labor of love at that point.
smusamashah 3y ago
There is simply no comparison between the two. Its like comparing MS Notepad with MS Visual Studio. Jetbrains IDEs are so much ahead of even Visual Studio.

vscode is an Electron app and is great and more responsive than its "native" competitor apps from JetBrains.

by jupp0r 3y ago

vscode is an Electron app and is great and more responsive than its "native" competitor apps from JetBrains.

JohnFen 3y ago

That's damning with faint praise, though, isn't it?

jupp0r 3y ago
Is it? I'm pretty happy with vscode. I realize that if you actually measure responsiveness there are better options, but subjectively I'm happy while other "IDEs" are completely unusable for me (Visual Studio, JetBrains IDEs, Eclipse, ...).
- JohnFen 3y ago
  VSCode isn't an IDE, really, so there is a bit of apples and oranges here. But that said... I meant that comparing VSCode to the likes of JetBrains products and Eclipse isn't meaningful because JetBrains and Eclipse are fairly terrible in terms of performance and system load. Comparing to native programs is more appropriate. Visual Studio is a native program, true, but I think it's a terrible one. All that said, the IDE product space has become awful overall, and I struggle to find a modern good one. So, yeah...

wrapperup 3y ago

JetBrains' IDEs are very heavyweight, it's apples to oranges. And while there is some native code in them, they're still driven by the JVM mostly. There is fleet, but it's not an improvement to vscode at all IMO. How about vscode vs sublime, neovim, or any other native text editor with LSP support? vscode is slow comparatively.

skydhash 3y ago

VS Code is primarily an editor, while JetBrains's products are IDEs. You can add extensions to make VS Code more an IDE. And I'd like to see benchmarks proving your point. If you're using VS Code as an editor, others like Sublime Text, Notepad++, Kate and TextMate make it seem very slow.

jupp0r 3y ago
If your definition of IDE is that everything has to be done using menus and that it needs to be super slow, you are right. If you look at actual functionality then VSCode is as much of an IDE as Eclipse.
- vladvasiliu 3y ago
  I don't know about slow, IntelliJ is plenty fast on my "utlrabook" with a basic CPU. But you're wrong on the menu side. They have keyboard shortcuts for everything. And you can program your own if you don't like the provided ones.
- skydhash 3y ago
  The actual slow part is the source code analysis (that is quite robust). Apart from that, I've never noticed any real slowness. I have an M1 MBA and WebStorm is quite responsive. I've not touched Eclipse since 2015, but I remember it was fast even then.
jmhammond 3y ago
I mean, it’s faster than Emacs on my Mac m1.

SAI_Peregrinus 3y ago

Until you install the enough addons to VSCode to give it the same functionality JetBrains products have out of the box, then it gets slower.

tracker1 3y ago

In fairness, the core of VS Code is really well-crafted highly performant code. It was designed to be fast and to work for a web integrated code editor from the start. After trying Atom and Brackets, I almost didn't touch VS Code when it came out, I'm glad I did decide to try it as I really do like it. Of course most Electron apps don't have near the same level of effort or foresight when it comes to performance. Discord probably the second most common electron app, and Teams being third. Both of which, at the very least, have issues. Some could be overcome, or at least be more consistent with WASM built controllers, but that whole space needs some maturing and improved tooling. I've played with Tauri and Yew and think it's pretty nifty, but there's a lot of work to getting parity with say React+MUI. React+MUI itself is pretty good. But even then, on a relatively large team with some relatively inexperienced devs, you can wind up with dependency trees that are insane, huge and slow. Taking that and going through the extra hurdles that the likes of Electron, Tauri or others add is burdonsome to say the least. It can be very nice, but usually isn't. And while I empathize with the teams using Electron, I can even support the ideas. In the end, it's the outcome that matters. I'm not one of the never-electron types. But I also recognize the issues. I use Tabby for my terminal, which is fast enough, but still takes 3-4 seconds to load. I use VS Code which is usually a couple seconds as well. It drops off dramatically from there. There are massive advantages a browser renderer offers... it gets all taken away by importing whatever library comes up in your npm search for any given thing.

kjellsbells 3y ago
> the core of VS Code is really well-crafted highly performant code. It was designed to be fast and to work for a web integrated code editor from the start. Seems to me this is kinda the core of the matter. VSCode written by developers, for developers, working in the domain of...development. It's almost a labor of love at that point.

smusamashah 3y ago

There is simply no comparison between the two. Its like comparing MS Notepad with MS Visual Studio. Jetbrains IDEs are so much ahead of even Visual Studio.