3 ms·

> I would like to see lotteries used for this type of thing, because they would be much easier to accept. Advocates for a new admissions system at TJHSST propo

> I would like to see lotteries used for this type of thing, because they would be much easier to accept. Advocates for a new admissions system at TJHSST proposed a merit lottery. Conservative advocates called it racist and the proponents "enemies of excellence" in precisely the same way that they did for the eventually implemented system. A similar response would happen if applied to universities. I think that merit lotteries are excellent and work much more effectively than the ordinary things people to do increase diversity (which often focuses on aesthetics rather than actually changing things). But we are kidding ourselves if we think that they won't face precisely the same resistance.

rahimnathwani 3y ago
Advocates for a new admissions system at TJHSST proposed a merit lottery. Conservative advocates called it racist This is an uncharitable interpretation. AIUI part of the motivation for overhauling the admissions system was precisely to reduce the proportion of Asian Americans admitted, in order to satisfy some diversity goal set at the state level. So, even if the new admissions system wasn't racist on its face, it was introduced for the purpose of racial balancing.
- UncleMeat 3y ago
  This is exactly what I mean when I say that merit lotteries will get exactly the same reaction where people just say "this is racist, you want to oppress Asian Americans."
  - rahimnathwani 3y ago
    I'll say it again: in the TJ case, there was significant evidence that the motivation for abandoning the old system was racial balancing. You can read about in the ruling here: https://pacificlegal.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Coalition-for-TJ-v.-Fairfax-County-School-Board-Decision.pdf https://pacificlegal.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Coalitio... I suggest you read pages 11 and 12 for context, but I'd like to specifically draw your attention to the first full sentence on page 14: "Here, no dispute of material fact exists regarding any of the Arlington Heights factors, nor as to the ultimate question that the Board acted with discriminatory intent." For specific evidence of that discriminatory intent, start at page 17. For more evidence, see pages 53-56 in the appeal dissent: https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23821588/tjca4opn052323.pdf https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23821588/tjca4opn0523...
    - UncleMeat 3y ago
      Again, I don't understand how this is relevant. People will oppose merit lotteries, like I said. And the system that is part of the suit isn't the merit lottery, btw.
      - rahimnathwani 3y ago
        You said "Advocates for a new admissions system at TJHSST proposed a merit lottery. Conservative advocates called it racist". I responded by explaining why the 'Conservative advocates' were correct. Do you deny that the changes were racially motivated?
        UncleMeat 3y ago
        I'm not interesting in talking about whether or not they were correct. I'm saying that conservatives aren't going to get on board with merit lotteries any more than other proposals.

rahimnathwani 3y ago

Advocates for a new admissions system at TJHSST proposed a merit lottery. Conservative advocates called it racist This is an uncharitable interpretation. AIUI part of the motivation for overhauling the admissions system was precisely to reduce the proportion of Asian Americans admitted, in order to satisfy some diversity goal set at the state level. So, even if the new admissions system wasn't racist on its face, it was introduced for the purpose of racial balancing.

UncleMeat 3y ago
This is exactly what I mean when I say that merit lotteries will get exactly the same reaction where people just say "this is racist, you want to oppress Asian Americans."
- rahimnathwani 3y ago
  I'll say it again: in the TJ case, there was significant evidence that the motivation for abandoning the old system was racial balancing. You can read about in the ruling here: https://pacificlegal.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Coalition-for-TJ-v.-Fairfax-County-School-Board-Decision.pdf https://pacificlegal.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Coalitio... I suggest you read pages 11 and 12 for context, but I'd like to specifically draw your attention to the first full sentence on page 14: "Here, no dispute of material fact exists regarding any of the Arlington Heights factors, nor as to the ultimate question that the Board acted with discriminatory intent." For specific evidence of that discriminatory intent, start at page 17. For more evidence, see pages 53-56 in the appeal dissent: https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23821588/tjca4opn052323.pdf https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23821588/tjca4opn0523...
  - UncleMeat 3y ago
    Again, I don't understand how this is relevant. People will oppose merit lotteries, like I said. And the system that is part of the suit isn't the merit lottery, btw.
    - rahimnathwani 3y ago
      You said "Advocates for a new admissions system at TJHSST proposed a merit lottery. Conservative advocates called it racist". I responded by explaining why the 'Conservative advocates' were correct. Do you deny that the changes were racially motivated?
      - UncleMeat 3y ago
        I'm not interesting in talking about whether or not they were correct. I'm saying that conservatives aren't going to get on board with merit lotteries any more than other proposals.