4 ms·

Can someone help me a little? I tried Kagi and when my 100 searches ran out I stopped using it. I really didn't like the feeling that I needed to meter my searc

Can someone help me a little? I tried Kagi and when my 100 searches ran out I stopped using it. I really didn't like the feeling that I needed to meter my searches, it added a barrier to every search I did (should I use Kagi for this or should I just use Google?). It sounds stupid but literally every search I did I had a pang of worry that I was "wasting" a search. I also didn't experience a huge increase in search quality that I noticed. I didn't really get into the Lenses stuff even though it seemed cool because I just don't think about things like that when I'm searching. I guess 25 years of googling has conditioned my way of thinking about search. Kagi feels like something I should really like and I'd be fine with paying for it but I guess I need some more "tips" about how to get the most out of it and/or how to change my way of thinking about this.

nvr219 3y ago
I really enjoyed Kagi but it wasn't worth paying $25/mo for unlimited, and like you I don't want to be thinking about metering my searches.
- malnourish 3y ago
  I am a very avid searcher and have not once brushed up against the search limit.
  - nvr219 3y ago
    Maybe I'm holding it wrong. During my one-month test of Kagi using it for everything on all my devices I did 674 searches according to them.
dns_snek 3y ago
I felt the same way about query metering and ended up cancelling my Kagi subscription once they raised their prices. I still occasionally check their Discord server for updates and it sounds like they're trying to bring the cost of unlimited search back down to around $15. Regarding search quality, I don't think it's a revolutionary improvement over Google, but for me it's been noticeable during the time I used it, where as Neeva and Brave have been very noticeable downgrades. I think Kagi shines once you lean into the tools they provide and start upranking and downranking different domains. Keep in mind it's been a couple of months since I last used it and they've added the search result summarizer and some other AI tools since then that might help tip the balance their way.
- joshstrange 3y ago
  $15/unlimited would be acceptable to me, $25 just seems way too high. I never played much with the summarizer since it was metered as well and I get squirrely about using up limited things (see also: my inventory at the end of every RPG, so many potions that "I might need later"). The ranking and lenses seemed very cool to me but I burned through my free tier before I could really use them. Maybe I'll try again at the $10/mo price.
karaterobot 3y ago
I've been using it since the beta, and am still paying for it. I shared your concerns at first, but in practice I've never run into the limit. In fact, checking my history, I've never actually gotten close to the limit. I pay $10/mo for 1500 searches, and most months I do less than 500 searches. I don't think the search quality is anything special. I have never figured out how to use Lenses, and I don't even care to try them again. I like it for privacy, and I like that you can give weight to different websites, and even block ones you don't want to see again. I know there are Google plugins for blocking sources as well. I don't have any tips. I think Kagi is about as good as DuckDuckGo, and the advantage it has is that it costs money. I'm at the point where I don't even trust a nominally privacy-focused search engine like DDG not to drift into the unethical. For some reason—maybe naivety—I think a company that takes money in exchange guaranteeing my privacy is theoretically more reliable, if only because it would be too audacious to outright lie about that.
- PartiallyTyped 3y ago
  This is my usage: Jun 2023 1171 May 2023 822 Apr 2023 2451 Mar 2023 3700 Feb 2023 3632 Jan 2023 5664 Dec 2022 1245 I found that most of my searches are in my phone actually.
  - barbazoo 3y ago
    > Jan 2023 5664 That's 183 searches per day, assuming 8 hours of sleep that's 11.5 searches per hour, that's roughly a search every 5 minutes. That's a busy month :)
    - PartiallyTyped 3y ago
      I was preparing for my defense :D
- philwelch 3y ago
  How are you paying for it? Can’t they trace your searches back to you via your payment method?
carlosjobim 3y ago
There is no problem, except in your imagination. Each additional search costs a couple of cents, why would you worry about such a small amount? When you're driving a car you're using cents of fuel every minute, do you worry about that when you're driving, counting the cents? You've literally managed to find the most insignificant thing to worry about in existence. But if quality is not impressive to you there's no reason to use the service.
- junon 3y ago
  > You've literally managed to find the most insignificant thing to worry about in existence. * in your opinion, in your circumstances, for your usage patterns.
- joshstrange 3y ago
  Wow, not really sure where the hostility is coming from. I'm literally asking for suggestion/motivations/reasons to pay because I feel like it is something I want but I need help getting over the hump of paying for search. I also outlined that I didn't experience an increase in quality and posited that I might be using it wrong or not taking full advantage. > You've literally managed to find the most insignificant thing to worry about in existence. It's clearly not "insignificant" since others here have voiced the same concern or annoyance. I think we have enough research/studies to show that metering/limiting has an effect on how people use something even if the overage fee is low. I used the trial and I wasn't sold on it, I was asking for people to tell me how they get value out of it, you're doing literally the opposite and being a jerk about it. If anything your comment makes me want to just forget about Kagi.
  - carlosjobim 3y ago
    I really didn't intend to be hostile in any way, and I apologize if that's how my comment looked. We as humans tend to trick our own minds into worrying about insignificant things and sometimes need somebody to help us snap out of it. I was trying to help you with that, but instead you think I came across as a jerk. It's not worth your time to worry about a couple of cents for a search. I know many people have the same concern and worry as you, it is still not rational. > I used the trial and I wasn't sold on it Then there is no reason for you to use it - even if it was free. The only reason to use paid search is to get better quality results. There is no special maneuver to use with Kagi, it's just typing the query into the box like on Google.
tiltowait 3y ago
I initially worried about surpassing my quota at first, but I've never come close to it (I'm on the grandfathered $10/1500 plan). For me, I notice better search results than Google (not night and day, but noticeable). The ability to block/promote/demote certain sites is fantastic, and I like the URL rules you can create. For instance, I've set Reddit links to open in old.reddit.com, and I've set Youtube links to redirect to an Invidious instance. It's got some other nice things—I like the universal summarizer a lot, and the search result summarizer has come in handy many times. But mostly, I just like using something that isn't Google without feeling like I'm compromising (which I did feel with both DDG and Brave).
- 8ytecoder 3y ago
  It’s the personalisation element combined with slightly better results that makes it so much better. Plus, I don’t have to block any ads or tracking. Google without an adblocker has become harder and harder to navigate. On the other end, I’m seeing Google results get really really bad. Mostly just missing results. When I search the same term on bing there are pages and pages of results. I’ve no idea what’s going on at Google. I don’t use it logged in and don’t know if that affects the results.
europeanNyan 3y ago
I'm completely the same as you so I did the following: I took the $10 plan and watched my usage for a week. I seem to hover roughly at about 30-40 searches per day on average so I upgraded to the Family plan. Yes, I know, it sounds weird but now I've got 1400 searches and just didn't invite anyone. And I don't have to worry about if it's going to be enough because my own data says that it's going to easily be enough. Lenses are actually why I subscribed mostly. I search for organic data often while trying to find help for a product or the opinions on a service or something like that. Regular search is ok, changing to the Forum Lense is mind blowing because I only get discussions from real people.

nvr219 3y ago

I really enjoyed Kagi but it wasn't worth paying $25/mo for unlimited, and like you I don't want to be thinking about metering my searches.

malnourish 3y ago
I am a very avid searcher and have not once brushed up against the search limit.
- nvr219 3y ago
  Maybe I'm holding it wrong. During my one-month test of Kagi using it for everything on all my devices I did 674 searches according to them.

dns_snek 3y ago

I felt the same way about query metering and ended up cancelling my Kagi subscription once they raised their prices. I still occasionally check their Discord server for updates and it sounds like they're trying to bring the cost of unlimited search back down to around $15. Regarding search quality, I don't think it's a revolutionary improvement over Google, but for me it's been noticeable during the time I used it, where as Neeva and Brave have been very noticeable downgrades. I think Kagi shines once you lean into the tools they provide and start upranking and downranking different domains. Keep in mind it's been a couple of months since I last used it and they've added the search result summarizer and some other AI tools since then that might help tip the balance their way.

joshstrange 3y ago
$15/unlimited would be acceptable to me, $25 just seems way too high. I never played much with the summarizer since it was metered as well and I get squirrely about using up limited things (see also: my inventory at the end of every RPG, so many potions that "I might need later"). The ranking and lenses seemed very cool to me but I burned through my free tier before I could really use them. Maybe I'll try again at the $10/mo price.

karaterobot 3y ago

I've been using it since the beta, and am still paying for it. I shared your concerns at first, but in practice I've never run into the limit. In fact, checking my history, I've never actually gotten close to the limit. I pay $10/mo for 1500 searches, and most months I do less than 500 searches. I don't think the search quality is anything special. I have never figured out how to use Lenses, and I don't even care to try them again. I like it for privacy, and I like that you can give weight to different websites, and even block ones you don't want to see again. I know there are Google plugins for blocking sources as well. I don't have any tips. I think Kagi is about as good as DuckDuckGo, and the advantage it has is that it costs money. I'm at the point where I don't even trust a nominally privacy-focused search engine like DDG not to drift into the unethical. For some reason—maybe naivety—I think a company that takes money in exchange guaranteeing my privacy is theoretically more reliable, if only because it would be too audacious to outright lie about that.

PartiallyTyped 3y ago
This is my usage: Jun 2023 1171 May 2023 822 Apr 2023 2451 Mar 2023 3700 Feb 2023 3632 Jan 2023 5664 Dec 2022 1245 I found that most of my searches are in my phone actually.
- barbazoo 3y ago
  > Jan 2023 5664 That's 183 searches per day, assuming 8 hours of sleep that's 11.5 searches per hour, that's roughly a search every 5 minutes. That's a busy month :)
  - PartiallyTyped 3y ago
    I was preparing for my defense :D
philwelch 3y ago
How are you paying for it? Can’t they trace your searches back to you via your payment method?

carlosjobim 3y ago

There is no problem, except in your imagination. Each additional search costs a couple of cents, why would you worry about such a small amount? When you're driving a car you're using cents of fuel every minute, do you worry about that when you're driving, counting the cents? You've literally managed to find the most insignificant thing to worry about in existence. But if quality is not impressive to you there's no reason to use the service.

junon 3y ago
> You've literally managed to find the most insignificant thing to worry about in existence. * in your opinion, in your circumstances, for your usage patterns.
joshstrange 3y ago
Wow, not really sure where the hostility is coming from. I'm literally asking for suggestion/motivations/reasons to pay because I feel like it is something I want but I need help getting over the hump of paying for search. I also outlined that I didn't experience an increase in quality and posited that I might be using it wrong or not taking full advantage. > You've literally managed to find the most insignificant thing to worry about in existence. It's clearly not "insignificant" since others here have voiced the same concern or annoyance. I think we have enough research/studies to show that metering/limiting has an effect on how people use something even if the overage fee is low. I used the trial and I wasn't sold on it, I was asking for people to tell me how they get value out of it, you're doing literally the opposite and being a jerk about it. If anything your comment makes me want to just forget about Kagi.
- carlosjobim 3y ago
  I really didn't intend to be hostile in any way, and I apologize if that's how my comment looked. We as humans tend to trick our own minds into worrying about insignificant things and sometimes need somebody to help us snap out of it. I was trying to help you with that, but instead you think I came across as a jerk. It's not worth your time to worry about a couple of cents for a search. I know many people have the same concern and worry as you, it is still not rational. > I used the trial and I wasn't sold on it Then there is no reason for you to use it - even if it was free. The only reason to use paid search is to get better quality results. There is no special maneuver to use with Kagi, it's just typing the query into the box like on Google.

tiltowait 3y ago

I initially worried about surpassing my quota at first, but I've never come close to it (I'm on the grandfathered $10/1500 plan). For me, I notice better search results than Google (not night and day, but noticeable). The ability to block/promote/demote certain sites is fantastic, and I like the URL rules you can create. For instance, I've set Reddit links to open in old.reddit.com, and I've set Youtube links to redirect to an Invidious instance. It's got some other nice things—I like the universal summarizer a lot, and the search result summarizer has come in handy many times. But mostly, I just like using something that isn't Google without feeling like I'm compromising (which I did feel with both DDG and Brave).

8ytecoder 3y ago
It’s the personalisation element combined with slightly better results that makes it so much better. Plus, I don’t have to block any ads or tracking. Google without an adblocker has become harder and harder to navigate. On the other end, I’m seeing Google results get really really bad. Mostly just missing results. When I search the same term on bing there are pages and pages of results. I’ve no idea what’s going on at Google. I don’t use it logged in and don’t know if that affects the results.

europeanNyan 3y ago

I'm completely the same as you so I did the following: I took the $10 plan and watched my usage for a week. I seem to hover roughly at about 30-40 searches per day on average so I upgraded to the Family plan. Yes, I know, it sounds weird but now I've got 1400 searches and just didn't invite anyone. And I don't have to worry about if it's going to be enough because my own data says that it's going to easily be enough. Lenses are actually why I subscribed mostly. I search for organic data often while trying to find help for a product or the opinions on a service or something like that. Regular search is ok, changing to the Forum Lense is mind blowing because I only get discussions from real people.