4 ms·

How is this different from the phone in your pocket?

otter-in-a-suit 3y ago
The biggest difference is that using something non-privacy-conscious (like Google Maps) doesn't have an immediate impact on my insurance bills. It also doesn't have access to my ODB-2 data and I can turn it off. iOS allows me to set relatively fine-grained permissions and privacy settings. Unless I actively use Google Maps (or any other GPS enabled app), it won't be able to report my location data.
stravant 3y ago
Value proposition. What are you going to do, _not_ walk around with a phone in your pocket?
- tcfhgj 3y ago
  Why not?
- reaperducer 3y ago
  What are you going to do, _not_ walk around with a phone in your pocket? Sounds like me three days a week. I walk out of my home carrying nothing more than a $20 bill and a newspaper. I go to the French cafe a couple of blocks away and have a leisurely lunch while reading the news without any tech or financial company following me around tracing, tallying, tabulating, and selling my life. I call it "normal."
  - sireat 3y ago
    That was normal 25 years ago. These days that puts you in a "suspicious person without phone on them at all times" category.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
hippari2 3y ago
Well we can build a startup that offer cheaper health/life insurance based on phone data tracking and see how people would react.
- reaperducer 3y ago
  Well we can build a startup that offer cheaper health/life insurance based on phone data tracking and see how people would react. This exists. I saw a commercial for it on late-night TV. At the bottom it noted that it was not available in California or Massachusetts, which is what made me curious to look into it and see why it's so bad that it's been banned in certain states.
johnnymorgan 3y ago
I can, and do, leave it at home
ClumsyPilot 3y ago
is it worse to be burgled 1-se or twice?
fn-mote 3y ago
There is no reasonable scenario whereby your insurance company gets access to your geolocation trace information from your phone. It is possible that your phone provider does not have more than 24 hours of records of which phone towers you connected to. It is almost certain that the granularity of any information subpoenaed after the fact will not be sufficient to establish any specific behavior at the time of the accident. Your phone provider is probably not using some off-the-shelf ML modeling to slap together a risk profile that you will be unable to appeal and yet is years ahead of any government regulation. (E.g., in the US if your credit rating causes you to get a worse rate, you must be notified. I have not looked, but I'm very dubious that your "Driver Risk Profile (TM)" will have any such obligations - now or in the imaginable future. See below.) Biden's proposed AI Bill of Rights [1] is (surprisingly) a pretty interesting read: > You should know that an automated system is being used and understand how and why it contributes to outcomes that impact you. If this were a law, this part would be useful. > You and your communities should be free from unchecked surveillance I suppose watching your every move in the car isn't going to be considered "unchecked". Since people are all carrying cell phones, I'm not as hopeful this point goes anywhere useful. [1]: https://www.whitehouse.gov/ostp/ai-bill-of-rights/#privacy https://www.whitehouse.gov/ostp/ai-bill-of-rights/#privacy
- sumtechguy 3y ago
  > It is possible that your phone provider does not have more than 24 hours of records of which phone towers you connected to. It is much longer than that (they have exabytes of data and DO keep it). They have retention periods in years not days. They also bake stuff right into the OS. As they usually have final say on what can and can not be installed on your phone. Back when I worked this sort of thing they were looking into gathering that exact data and selling it. As being a cell phone is title II device they have a lot of wiggle room on doing exactly that as they are considered like an ISP. It is probably burred in that fine print you sign when you sign up.

The biggest difference is that using something non-privacy-conscious (like Google Maps) doesn't have an immediate impact on my insurance bills. It also doesn't have access to my ODB-2 data and I can turn it off. iOS allows me to set relatively fine-grained permissions and privacy settings. Unless I actively use Google Maps (or any other GPS enabled app), it won't be able to report my location data.

stravant 3y ago

Value proposition. What are you going to do, _not_ walk around with a phone in your pocket?

tcfhgj 3y ago
Why not?
reaperducer 3y ago
What are you going to do, _not_ walk around with a phone in your pocket? Sounds like me three days a week. I walk out of my home carrying nothing more than a $20 bill and a newspaper. I go to the French cafe a couple of blocks away and have a leisurely lunch while reading the news without any tech or financial company following me around tracing, tallying, tabulating, and selling my life. I call it "normal."
- sireat 3y ago
  That was normal 25 years ago. These days that puts you in a "suspicious person without phone on them at all times" category.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

hippari2 3y ago

Well we can build a startup that offer cheaper health/life insurance based on phone data tracking and see how people would react.

reaperducer 3y ago
Well we can build a startup that offer cheaper health/life insurance based on phone data tracking and see how people would react. This exists. I saw a commercial for it on late-night TV. At the bottom it noted that it was not available in California or Massachusetts, which is what made me curious to look into it and see why it's so bad that it's been banned in certain states.

johnnymorgan 3y ago

I can, and do, leave it at home

ClumsyPilot 3y ago

is it worse to be burgled 1-se or twice?

fn-mote 3y ago

There is no reasonable scenario whereby your insurance company gets access to your geolocation trace information from your phone. It is possible that your phone provider does not have more than 24 hours of records of which phone towers you connected to. It is almost certain that the granularity of any information subpoenaed after the fact will not be sufficient to establish any specific behavior at the time of the accident. Your phone provider is probably not using some off-the-shelf ML modeling to slap together a risk profile that you will be unable to appeal and yet is years ahead of any government regulation. (E.g., in the US if your credit rating causes you to get a worse rate, you must be notified. I have not looked, but I'm very dubious that your "Driver Risk Profile (TM)" will have any such obligations - now or in the imaginable future. See below.) Biden's proposed AI Bill of Rights [1] is (surprisingly) a pretty interesting read: > You should know that an automated system is being used and understand how and why it contributes to outcomes that impact you. If this were a law, this part would be useful. > You and your communities should be free from unchecked surveillance I suppose watching your every move in the car isn't going to be considered "unchecked". Since people are all carrying cell phones, I'm not as hopeful this point goes anywhere useful. [1]: https://www.whitehouse.gov/ostp/ai-bill-of-rights/#privacy https://www.whitehouse.gov/ostp/ai-bill-of-rights/#privacy

sumtechguy 3y ago
> It is possible that your phone provider does not have more than 24 hours of records of which phone towers you connected to. It is much longer than that (they have exabytes of data and DO keep it). They have retention periods in years not days. They also bake stuff right into the OS. As they usually have final say on what can and can not be installed on your phone. Back when I worked this sort of thing they were looking into gathering that exact data and selling it. As being a cell phone is title II device they have a lot of wiggle room on doing exactly that as they are considered like an ISP. It is probably burred in that fine print you sign when you sign up.