6 ms·

>But where will these new people stay? Housing is relatively affordable outside of Ontario and BC. Montreal, Calgary, Edmonton, Quebec City, Winnepeg, Halifax,

>But where will these new people stay? Housing is relatively affordable outside of Ontario and BC. Montreal, Calgary, Edmonton, Quebec City, Winnepeg, Halifax, Saskatoon, Regina, and St Johns are all major metro areas where homes are less than half the price of the GTA and Vancouver metro. The obvious fix for Ontario and BC to make housing more affordable is to allow people to build more where people want to live by relaxing zoning requirements. In 80%+ of Vancouver and 60%+ of Toronto it's literally illegal to build anything besides detached single family homes. Little of the remaining land zoned for more dense development is suitable for development. There are some smaller changes like streamlining permitting, not exempting 100% of capital gains and incentivizing speculation, and a vacancy tax to discourage speculation that would help. The problem is any changes to make housing more affordable are politically unpopular, almost 70% of Canadians are homeowners and in the short term benefit from the status quo. Also younger people are ~20% less likely to vote.

leshow 3y ago
> The obvious fix for Ontario and BC to make housing more affordable is to allow people to build more where people want to live by relaxing zoning requirements. The market has proven totally unable to solve the housing crisis and your solution is to relax regulation and incentivize builders to make more profits. The price of units and homes is already too high, incentives will just get us more market rate or above housing. Here's another option: start to decommodify housing by building good, mixed income public housing. Vienna and Singapore have two different models that could work here.
jbarham 3y ago
> Montreal, Calgary, Edmonton, Quebec City, Winnepeg, Halifax, Saskatoon, Regina, and St Johns Yeah, all of these cities also have long, harsh winters. FWIW I'm a Canadian who lived in California on work visas for several years and relocated to Australia in 2011, where I'm now a citizen. I've never regretted leaving Canada.
- raverbashing 3y ago
  And Toronto's winter is not harsh?
  - horeszko 3y ago
    Not compared to most places in Canada its not. Toronto I would say is between 2C to -10C on average during the winter, -20C in the extreme. Cities like Regina and Saskatoon for example have winters in the range of -20C to -40C on average, and extremes can reach -55C. Its like comparing Alaska and NYC.
  - antonvs 3y ago
    Toronto is in what's known as Canada's banana belt. It's all relative.
    - voisin 3y ago
      I’ve never heard anyone use this phrase. What are you talking about?
      - antonvs 3y ago
        Here you go: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36557414 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36557414
    - JimtheCoder 3y ago
      Canadian here, lived in Toronto for about a decade. There are many names that Canadians from outside Toronto call Toronto...few repeatable in polite company...but I have never heard this Banana Belt term either.
      - antonvs 3y ago
        See this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36557414 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36557414
    - 3y ago
wesapien 3y ago
I know a Realtor and they said those cities are already getting pumped.
voisin 3y ago
> Housing is relatively affordable outside of Ontario and BC. Montreal, Calgary, Edmonton, Quebec City, Winnepeg, Halifax, Saskatoon, Regina, and St Johns are all major metro areas where homes are less than half the price of the GTA and Vancouver metro. This is not the right way to think about it. Yes these cities are cheaper than GTA/GVA, but that has always been the case. And this metric only matters if you are earning GTA/GVA incomes and looking for something cheaper than these mega cities to buy in, which arguably only affects a tiny percent of the population. The right comparison is how these cities’ house prices compare to themselves of 3, 5, 10 years ago versus their average household income over the same time periods. When you look at that, which is a much more relevant metric of affordability, you will find there is essentially no city in this country that hasn’t been absolutely obliterated on affordability over the last decade. 7-10 years ago it was a GTA/GVA affordability issue. Now it a story of every podunk 2 horse town from coast to coast. Why? Because of interest rates! The BoC, like most central banks, left rates too low for too long and then massively overreacted to COVID.
- ZoomerCretin 3y ago
  Why would an immigrant care how much housing prices were in a city 3, 5, or 10 years ago? That has absolutely nothing to do with how affordable it is right now.
brutus1213 3y ago
Issue is not just housing. Our health services and infra is crumbling. 401 near Yonge st is jammed nearly 24 hours (yes!!!). We literally have no more space for cars. We have switch to the 407 for as much travel as we can (and it is crazy expensive and silly given how much tax I pay as a techie). The ERs in GTA are just always clogged. I've had to deal with multiple instances of 10+ hour waits in the ER. When they were not addressed in time, one such incident got worse, and ended up in a 10 day serious hospital stay (love the logic on that one). Getting an appointment with any sort of specialist is also a gauntlet. I'm an immigrant and it was surreal hearing the new Toronto mayor talk about how much she accomplished as an immigrant to Canada. It was indeed possible when she and I came to this country. It is a fantasy today. GTA has become a terrible place to live in a very short time period.
- sgt 3y ago
  Immigration is a double edged swords. It's one way to grow an economy rapidly, but you can't really do it without proper 10-20 year ahead planning. Not a real surprise, since most politicians are concerned with short term wins.
arroz 3y ago
Price has also been going up in the cities you called “relatively affordable” I live in the middle of nowhere and when renewing my annual lease my rent went 10% up It is expensive for most people who live here And Calgary prices have shooted up due to people leaving BC and ON. Not as expensive as BC or ON but nevertheless local people are feeling the changes.
swat535 3y ago
I live in Montreal and prices for new condos are nearly 1M, rent has been steadily increasing and wages are pretty low. To make matters worse, enjoy not having any road infrastructure, dealing with construction and traffic, paying the highest tax in country and dealing with an incompetent government who is more concerned about replacing stop signs that say "STOP" with "ARRÊT" instead of focusing on healthcare, education and employment. I'm not sure why everyone thinks we live in a paradise. Montreal is only "hip" if you are 18 and want to go clubbing at night. The allure of "Jazz Fest" drops off quickly.
Fire-Dragon-DoL 3y ago
These are tech talents though. Tech offices are in the big cities

leshow 3y ago

> The obvious fix for Ontario and BC to make housing more affordable is to allow people to build more where people want to live by relaxing zoning requirements. The market has proven totally unable to solve the housing crisis and your solution is to relax regulation and incentivize builders to make more profits. The price of units and homes is already too high, incentives will just get us more market rate or above housing. Here's another option: start to decommodify housing by building good, mixed income public housing. Vienna and Singapore have two different models that could work here.

jbarham 3y ago

> Montreal, Calgary, Edmonton, Quebec City, Winnepeg, Halifax, Saskatoon, Regina, and St Johns Yeah, all of these cities also have long, harsh winters. FWIW I'm a Canadian who lived in California on work visas for several years and relocated to Australia in 2011, where I'm now a citizen. I've never regretted leaving Canada.

raverbashing 3y ago
And Toronto's winter is not harsh?
- horeszko 3y ago
  Not compared to most places in Canada its not. Toronto I would say is between 2C to -10C on average during the winter, -20C in the extreme. Cities like Regina and Saskatoon for example have winters in the range of -20C to -40C on average, and extremes can reach -55C. Its like comparing Alaska and NYC.
- antonvs 3y ago
  Toronto is in what's known as Canada's banana belt. It's all relative.
  - voisin 3y ago
    I’ve never heard anyone use this phrase. What are you talking about?
    - antonvs 3y ago
      Here you go: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36557414 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36557414
  - JimtheCoder 3y ago
    Canadian here, lived in Toronto for about a decade. There are many names that Canadians from outside Toronto call Toronto...few repeatable in polite company...but I have never heard this Banana Belt term either.
    - antonvs 3y ago
      See this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36557414 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36557414
  - 3y ago

wesapien 3y ago

I know a Realtor and they said those cities are already getting pumped.

voisin 3y ago

> Housing is relatively affordable outside of Ontario and BC. Montreal, Calgary, Edmonton, Quebec City, Winnepeg, Halifax, Saskatoon, Regina, and St Johns are all major metro areas where homes are less than half the price of the GTA and Vancouver metro. This is not the right way to think about it. Yes these cities are cheaper than GTA/GVA, but that has always been the case. And this metric only matters if you are earning GTA/GVA incomes and looking for something cheaper than these mega cities to buy in, which arguably only affects a tiny percent of the population. The right comparison is how these cities’ house prices compare to themselves of 3, 5, 10 years ago versus their average household income over the same time periods. When you look at that, which is a much more relevant metric of affordability, you will find there is essentially no city in this country that hasn’t been absolutely obliterated on affordability over the last decade. 7-10 years ago it was a GTA/GVA affordability issue. Now it a story of every podunk 2 horse town from coast to coast. Why? Because of interest rates! The BoC, like most central banks, left rates too low for too long and then massively overreacted to COVID.

ZoomerCretin 3y ago
Why would an immigrant care how much housing prices were in a city 3, 5, or 10 years ago? That has absolutely nothing to do with how affordable it is right now.

brutus1213 3y ago

Issue is not just housing. Our health services and infra is crumbling. 401 near Yonge st is jammed nearly 24 hours (yes!!!). We literally have no more space for cars. We have switch to the 407 for as much travel as we can (and it is crazy expensive and silly given how much tax I pay as a techie). The ERs in GTA are just always clogged. I've had to deal with multiple instances of 10+ hour waits in the ER. When they were not addressed in time, one such incident got worse, and ended up in a 10 day serious hospital stay (love the logic on that one). Getting an appointment with any sort of specialist is also a gauntlet. I'm an immigrant and it was surreal hearing the new Toronto mayor talk about how much she accomplished as an immigrant to Canada. It was indeed possible when she and I came to this country. It is a fantasy today. GTA has become a terrible place to live in a very short time period.

sgt 3y ago
Immigration is a double edged swords. It's one way to grow an economy rapidly, but you can't really do it without proper 10-20 year ahead planning. Not a real surprise, since most politicians are concerned with short term wins.

arroz 3y ago

Price has also been going up in the cities you called “relatively affordable” I live in the middle of nowhere and when renewing my annual lease my rent went 10% up It is expensive for most people who live here And Calgary prices have shooted up due to people leaving BC and ON. Not as expensive as BC or ON but nevertheless local people are feeling the changes.

swat535 3y ago

I live in Montreal and prices for new condos are nearly 1M, rent has been steadily increasing and wages are pretty low. To make matters worse, enjoy not having any road infrastructure, dealing with construction and traffic, paying the highest tax in country and dealing with an incompetent government who is more concerned about replacing stop signs that say "STOP" with "ARRÊT" instead of focusing on healthcare, education and employment. I'm not sure why everyone thinks we live in a paradise. Montreal is only "hip" if you are 18 and want to go clubbing at night. The allure of "Jazz Fest" drops off quickly.

Fire-Dragon-DoL 3y ago

These are tech talents though. Tech offices are in the big cities