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A person might be forgiven for viewing this cynically as a way for large corporations to reduce the wages they need to pay by hijacking and bypassing the regul

A person might be forgiven for viewing this cynically as a way for large corporations to reduce the wages they need to pay by hijacking and bypassing the regular immigration system to import indentured tech servants that they can exploit ruthlessly and underpay.

itake 3y ago
Or they are trying to offer a legal way for people to do what they are already doing illegally
- pkaye 3y ago
  Canada is already allowing a large amount of immigration already. Those H1B workers could have already gone directly to Canada.
- throwawaylinux 3y ago
  Yes, banish the thought a government might from time to time fail to act in the best interests of its citizens.
  - FollowingTheDao 3y ago
    In the US of A, corporations are people and then some.
    - throwawaylinux 3y ago
      The article is about Canada.
      - FollowingTheDao 3y ago
        I know that.
        throwawaylinux 3y ago
        Yes you would now that I told you. Glad to have been able to help, you're welcome.
- Teever 3y ago
  Motivations aside, I think you can recognize the downward pressure that this measure could have on the already abysmal Canadian tech salaries?
  - asdfaoeu 3y ago
    Only for people working for domestic customers. Others may benefit as having more people already in Canada generates a network effect. Really though this policy benefits both the lower paid workers which are not being competed against and those owning property which is enough to get support for a policy like this.
hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
> to import indentured tech servants that they can exploit ruthlessly and underpay. Except that one giant benefit that this has over H1-Bs in the US is that it is not tied to a single employer and the worker isn't kicked out with little time to find a new job if they leave an old job, which are the primary factors allowing employers to exploit and underpay their H1-B employees.
- radq 3y ago
  You can switch jobs on an H1-B, and if you get fired/laid off you currently get 180 days to find a new job (though that used to be 60 days previously).
  - thumbsup-_- 3y ago
    it's still 60 days https://www.uscis.gov/newsroom/alerts/options-for-nonimmigrant-workers-following-termination-of-employment https://www.uscis.gov/newsroom/alerts/options-for-nonimmigra...
    - radq 3y ago
      Looks like you're right, there was a recommendation to increase it but I don't see anything about it taking effect.
      - bubblethink 3y ago
        The recommendation was from some random group with no authority. It was hyped up by some random guy on twitter and eventually made its way to a bunch of places including here. There is no change. USCIS rulemaking process takes years, and they have not indicated that they are even entertaining it.
    - throwawaylinux 3y ago
      Doesn't seem too unreasonable for people who have highly in-demand skills that are unable to be satisfied by the domestic workforce.
ITB 3y ago
Why are there so many socialist tendencies on hacker news. Engineers are among the most privileged professionals on Earth. It’s great companies look to reduce costs. Lower cost of goods and services help everyone. Countries that meddle with the economy to keep incomes high end up having lower quality of life.
- all_factz 3y ago
  Actually, C-level execs are among the most privileged professionals on Earth. Once their salaries take a hit, we can talk about mine getting cut as well. Till then, enjoy being a shill!
- doublespanner 3y ago
  It doesn't matter if goods are cheaper if other parts of the human experience are degraded. It's not as simple as companies lowering costs, migration also creates conditions that concentrate wealth and creates unpleasant rapid growth. From what I have personally seen, there is a general feeling that the social costs of migration are not worth it. Sure, you can afford highly complex consumer goods, but you have are now just another cog in the globaly homogeneous exploitation machine.
- smaudet 3y ago
  "Lower cost of goods and services help everyone." That's nice, but the reason there are so many "socialist" tendencies is there are so many authoritarian, nigh even fascist tendencies emerging. Companies are and have been increasing the cost of those goods and services, regardless of what inflation has been doing, _and not decreasing the prices afterwards_. Lower cost of goods and services is a "conservative" fever dream - utter buck nonsense. "Countries that meddle with the economy to keep incomes high end up having lower quality of life." A corrupt person in a boardroom is the same as a corrupt person in political power - nobody benefits. Socialism at least demands those in positions of otherwise un-earned power are held accountable.
- thumbsup-_- 3y ago
  > Engineers are among the most privileged professionals on Earth. It’s great companies look to reduce costs. Lower cost of goods and services help everyone. Countries that meddle with the economy to keep incomes high end up having lower quality of life. No company cares about people and no country really cares about foreign nationals (especially non-refugees). It's all demand and supply. When workforce demand is high and supply is low, wages go high. They don't go high because you have a degree but because there are less people with a degree. Countries want these people because employers want them. If there are more people, wages could be lower but it will also attract more employers and hence more jobs for everyone possibly. There is no real answer whether this is helpful for an economy or not. It's a chicken and egg problem. Without talent there will be less companies interested in a geo area and without enough jobs there will be less talent attracted. So, countries are trying to solve one part of the problem (talent) with regulation.

itake 3y ago

Or they are trying to offer a legal way for people to do what they are already doing illegally

pkaye 3y ago
Canada is already allowing a large amount of immigration already. Those H1B workers could have already gone directly to Canada.
throwawaylinux 3y ago
Yes, banish the thought a government might from time to time fail to act in the best interests of its citizens.
- FollowingTheDao 3y ago
  In the US of A, corporations are people and then some.
  - throwawaylinux 3y ago
    The article is about Canada.
    - FollowingTheDao 3y ago
      I know that.
      - throwawaylinux 3y ago
        Yes you would now that I told you. Glad to have been able to help, you're welcome.
Teever 3y ago
Motivations aside, I think you can recognize the downward pressure that this measure could have on the already abysmal Canadian tech salaries?
- asdfaoeu 3y ago
  Only for people working for domestic customers. Others may benefit as having more people already in Canada generates a network effect. Really though this policy benefits both the lower paid workers which are not being competed against and those owning property which is enough to get support for a policy like this.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago

> to import indentured tech servants that they can exploit ruthlessly and underpay. Except that one giant benefit that this has over H1-Bs in the US is that it is not tied to a single employer and the worker isn't kicked out with little time to find a new job if they leave an old job, which are the primary factors allowing employers to exploit and underpay their H1-B employees.

radq 3y ago
You can switch jobs on an H1-B, and if you get fired/laid off you currently get 180 days to find a new job (though that used to be 60 days previously).
- thumbsup-_- 3y ago
  it's still 60 days https://www.uscis.gov/newsroom/alerts/options-for-nonimmigrant-workers-following-termination-of-employment https://www.uscis.gov/newsroom/alerts/options-for-nonimmigra...
  - radq 3y ago
    Looks like you're right, there was a recommendation to increase it but I don't see anything about it taking effect.
    - bubblethink 3y ago
      The recommendation was from some random group with no authority. It was hyped up by some random guy on twitter and eventually made its way to a bunch of places including here. There is no change. USCIS rulemaking process takes years, and they have not indicated that they are even entertaining it.
  - throwawaylinux 3y ago
    Doesn't seem too unreasonable for people who have highly in-demand skills that are unable to be satisfied by the domestic workforce.

ITB 3y ago

Why are there so many socialist tendencies on hacker news. Engineers are among the most privileged professionals on Earth. It’s great companies look to reduce costs. Lower cost of goods and services help everyone. Countries that meddle with the economy to keep incomes high end up having lower quality of life.

all_factz 3y ago
Actually, C-level execs are among the most privileged professionals on Earth. Once their salaries take a hit, we can talk about mine getting cut as well. Till then, enjoy being a shill!
doublespanner 3y ago
It doesn't matter if goods are cheaper if other parts of the human experience are degraded. It's not as simple as companies lowering costs, migration also creates conditions that concentrate wealth and creates unpleasant rapid growth. From what I have personally seen, there is a general feeling that the social costs of migration are not worth it. Sure, you can afford highly complex consumer goods, but you have are now just another cog in the globaly homogeneous exploitation machine.
smaudet 3y ago
"Lower cost of goods and services help everyone." That's nice, but the reason there are so many "socialist" tendencies is there are so many authoritarian, nigh even fascist tendencies emerging. Companies are and have been increasing the cost of those goods and services, regardless of what inflation has been doing, _and not decreasing the prices afterwards_. Lower cost of goods and services is a "conservative" fever dream - utter buck nonsense. "Countries that meddle with the economy to keep incomes high end up having lower quality of life." A corrupt person in a boardroom is the same as a corrupt person in political power - nobody benefits. Socialism at least demands those in positions of otherwise un-earned power are held accountable.
thumbsup-_- 3y ago
> Engineers are among the most privileged professionals on Earth. It’s great companies look to reduce costs. Lower cost of goods and services help everyone. Countries that meddle with the economy to keep incomes high end up having lower quality of life. No company cares about people and no country really cares about foreign nationals (especially non-refugees). It's all demand and supply. When workforce demand is high and supply is low, wages go high. They don't go high because you have a degree but because there are less people with a degree. Countries want these people because employers want them. If there are more people, wages could be lower but it will also attract more employers and hence more jobs for everyone possibly. There is no real answer whether this is helpful for an economy or not. It's a chicken and egg problem. Without talent there will be less companies interested in a geo area and without enough jobs there will be less talent attracted. So, countries are trying to solve one part of the problem (talent) with regulation.