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I don't see why people struggle with consciousness. I've found it to be concrete. It's the experience of having inputs (vision/hearing/etc) and outputs (respons

I don't see why people struggle with consciousness. I've found it to be concrete. It's the experience of having inputs (vision/hearing/etc) and outputs (response to stimuli). Whether or not you're actively aware of "hey, I have inputs and outputs" doesn't really matter. It's just the process of it. Do you have a pet dog or cat? It's obviously conscious. I guess my construct breaks down if we consider things like plants, they obviously respond to their environment.

rustymonday 3y ago
So by this definition bacteria has consciousness. I would have to disagree that bacteria are conscious.
- 88913527 3y ago
  Bacteria using their flagella to move away from danger seems like a conscious decision to me. It's analogous to the "Are viruses life?" question, where on the fringe it does get a bit more interesting. Any poorly defined term is going to raise interesting questions on its edge cases.
  - Turskarama 3y ago
    A fridge turns on when the temperature sensor detects that it's too warm inside, is that consciousness?
    - 88913527 3y ago
      Can a temperature sensor have experiences? It's stateless. Maybe that's an element to it. To revise, inputs and outputs with some concept of statefulness.
    - Solvency 3y ago
      Relative to its own perspective and contextual existence, sure, yes it is. Does that intimidate your human consciousness for some reason?
      - Turskarama 3y ago
        I think if you're going to define consciousness this simply then the word ceases to have any real meaning.
      - scatterhead 3y ago
        This is obviously not what people mean when they use the word. You've "resolved" the difficulty by just avoiding it.
awb 3y ago
Autonomy seems important as well. Plants are at the mercy of their environment to a much larger degree than conscious animals that can strategically assess their environment.
ggm 3y ago
*> Whether or not you're actively aware of "hey, I have inputs and outputs" doesn't really matter. It's just the process of it. No, thats exactly wrong inverse-style. Simply producing outputs from inputs is not consciousness. Being actively aware you exist is the whole and being of consciousness: Absence of inputs and outputs we can understand invites us to say "not conscious, no evidence of consciousness" but thats subject to validation. I don't personally believe plants are conscious, but I'm open to somebody demonstrating a sense of awareness. It probably won't be a mirror-test.
softsound 3y ago
It's all the different levels and degree to think about, from the tiny cell to the plants that can mimic what they see (even if it's just plastic, they still try to copy it), you are you but what is it that is you? Anti-addiction drugs are starting to be studied that make people not feel like over-shopping or over-eating and the results of new diabetic drugs that study this effect are very interesting. I guess I probably see plants like fish not exactly conscious though they certainly respond to their environment. Plants are quite noisy if you pet them, the audio is just outside our hearing range but we have devices that can track that sort of thing now. And some fish actually like to be pet, my great grandmother apparently had some fish she would pet, never met her just know of the stories. Probably everything that can grow has some level of it. Also fun fact worm memories are stored outside the brain, their are some trained worm studies you can Google that are interesting too.

rustymonday 3y ago

So by this definition bacteria has consciousness. I would have to disagree that bacteria are conscious.

88913527 3y ago
Bacteria using their flagella to move away from danger seems like a conscious decision to me. It's analogous to the "Are viruses life?" question, where on the fringe it does get a bit more interesting. Any poorly defined term is going to raise interesting questions on its edge cases.
- Turskarama 3y ago
  A fridge turns on when the temperature sensor detects that it's too warm inside, is that consciousness?
  - 88913527 3y ago
    Can a temperature sensor have experiences? It's stateless. Maybe that's an element to it. To revise, inputs and outputs with some concept of statefulness.
  - Solvency 3y ago
    Relative to its own perspective and contextual existence, sure, yes it is. Does that intimidate your human consciousness for some reason?
    - Turskarama 3y ago
      I think if you're going to define consciousness this simply then the word ceases to have any real meaning.
    - scatterhead 3y ago
      This is obviously not what people mean when they use the word. You've "resolved" the difficulty by just avoiding it.

awb 3y ago

Autonomy seems important as well. Plants are at the mercy of their environment to a much larger degree than conscious animals that can strategically assess their environment.

ggm 3y ago

*> Whether or not you're actively aware of "hey, I have inputs and outputs" doesn't really matter. It's just the process of it. No, thats exactly wrong inverse-style. Simply producing outputs from inputs is not consciousness. Being actively aware you exist is the whole and being of consciousness: Absence of inputs and outputs we can understand invites us to say "not conscious, no evidence of consciousness" but thats subject to validation. I don't personally believe plants are conscious, but I'm open to somebody demonstrating a sense of awareness. It probably won't be a mirror-test.

softsound 3y ago

It's all the different levels and degree to think about, from the tiny cell to the plants that can mimic what they see (even if it's just plastic, they still try to copy it), you are you but what is it that is you? Anti-addiction drugs are starting to be studied that make people not feel like over-shopping or over-eating and the results of new diabetic drugs that study this effect are very interesting. I guess I probably see plants like fish not exactly conscious though they certainly respond to their environment. Plants are quite noisy if you pet them, the audio is just outside our hearing range but we have devices that can track that sort of thing now. And some fish actually like to be pet, my great grandmother apparently had some fish she would pet, never met her just know of the stories. Probably everything that can grow has some level of it. Also fun fact worm memories are stored outside the brain, their are some trained worm studies you can Google that are interesting too.