4 ms·

That actually kinda makes sense. EVs should pay their share to use the roads too.

by throwaway1777 3y ago

loeg 3y ago
(Gas taxes are a relatively small fraction of roads funding, for what it's worth.)
- kbenson 3y ago
  I'd be interested in seeing the numbers, and how they slice it up (whether they're completely treating federal roads separately or using it for the total, etc), as at $0.364 per gallon in Utah, it seems like it results in a large amount to put towards funding something, so it would be interesting to track where it's going.
  - loeg 3y ago
    Utah’s cent per mile program treats all roads the same, including roads outside of the state.
    - throwaway1777 3y ago
      That didn’t answer the question
      - loeg 3y ago
        I was responding to this aside, not the question: > whether they're completely treating federal roads separately or using it for the total, etc The tax does not distinguish types of road, much like a gas tax does not.
        kbenson 3y ago
        That sounds like it's equating Utah's taxing to total U.S. road funding, to which I say both "duh" about the result and "that can't be all that's going on in the report if it's about Utah, so there must be some disconnect in what we're talking about." The context we were in is Utah gas taxes and how much it affects road funding that Utah does. Were you referring to something different? I would assume that Utah gas taxes, if they are intended to fund road work, would go towards state roads in Utah (but that's just an assumption, which is why I was interested in the source).
- Robotbeat 3y ago
  Indeed, gas taxes act as a sort of carbon tax, so taxing EVs to compensate is like getting rid of a carbon tax.
  - loeg 3y ago
    That isn't the stated purpose of most gas taxes, though. (The stated purpose is funding roads programs.) Intuitively, EVs still need to use and pay for road use. It's probably better for legislatures to explicitly pass carbon taxes (or similar things like cap-and-trade programs).
    - Robotbeat 3y ago
      No, gas taxes were always seen as part of conservation measures as well, especially since the 1970s. I see this claim all the time that gas taxes are purely a use tax, and that hasn’t been true for about half a century or longer, and just about everyone knows this, so I consider that kind of claim to be dishonest. And yes, it’s less efficient than a carbon tax, but fundamentally you cannot deny the net effect of getting rid of the conservation aspect of gas taxes BEFORE passing a compensating carbon tax would have the effect of basically eliminating a carbon tax. In other words, let’s talk about adding compensatory EV fees AFTER passing a carbon tax. Sounds fair and certainly better for climate.

That actually kinda makes sense. EVs should pay their share to use the roads too.

loeg 3y ago

(Gas taxes are a relatively small fraction of roads funding, for what it's worth.)

kbenson 3y ago
I'd be interested in seeing the numbers, and how they slice it up (whether they're completely treating federal roads separately or using it for the total, etc), as at $0.364 per gallon in Utah, it seems like it results in a large amount to put towards funding something, so it would be interesting to track where it's going.
- loeg 3y ago
  Utah’s cent per mile program treats all roads the same, including roads outside of the state.
  - throwaway1777 3y ago
    That didn’t answer the question
    - loeg 3y ago
      I was responding to this aside, not the question: > whether they're completely treating federal roads separately or using it for the total, etc The tax does not distinguish types of road, much like a gas tax does not.
      - kbenson 3y ago
        That sounds like it's equating Utah's taxing to total U.S. road funding, to which I say both "duh" about the result and "that can't be all that's going on in the report if it's about Utah, so there must be some disconnect in what we're talking about." The context we were in is Utah gas taxes and how much it affects road funding that Utah does. Were you referring to something different? I would assume that Utah gas taxes, if they are intended to fund road work, would go towards state roads in Utah (but that's just an assumption, which is why I was interested in the source).
Robotbeat 3y ago
Indeed, gas taxes act as a sort of carbon tax, so taxing EVs to compensate is like getting rid of a carbon tax.
- loeg 3y ago
  That isn't the stated purpose of most gas taxes, though. (The stated purpose is funding roads programs.) Intuitively, EVs still need to use and pay for road use. It's probably better for legislatures to explicitly pass carbon taxes (or similar things like cap-and-trade programs).
  - Robotbeat 3y ago
    No, gas taxes were always seen as part of conservation measures as well, especially since the 1970s. I see this claim all the time that gas taxes are purely a use tax, and that hasn’t been true for about half a century or longer, and just about everyone knows this, so I consider that kind of claim to be dishonest. And yes, it’s less efficient than a carbon tax, but fundamentally you cannot deny the net effect of getting rid of the conservation aspect of gas taxes BEFORE passing a compensating carbon tax would have the effect of basically eliminating a carbon tax. In other words, let’s talk about adding compensatory EV fees AFTER passing a carbon tax. Sounds fair and certainly better for climate.