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there's plenty of money in the world, just no value. any government can print up a trillion dollars. we have half a quadrillion dollars in total outstanding glo

there's plenty of money in the world, just no value. any government can print up a trillion dollars. we have half a quadrillion dollars in total outstanding global debt (all govt, private, hedged, and derivative-based debts)...one must wonder when global citizenry will awaken to the fact that global fiat currencies are all converging at worthlessness simultaneously

aswanson 18y ago
Ron Paul for IMF president and US Treasury secretary.
Dilpil 18y ago
Just because you can't touch something, doesn't mean it isn't real. Just because you do not understand something, doesn't mean it is made up.
- nihilocrat 18y ago
  Conversely, this is also a reason given to justify stuff like Creationism. Maybe it is just 'that simple'; our current financial crisis is primarily the result of a bunch of people realizing "oh, it's bad to give out huge loans to people who are probably going to default, but sell them like they are AAA loans", or perhaps more precisely "oh, maybe we shouldn't print so much imaginary money to the point where there is not enough real money getting generated to back it up".
ars 18y ago
Sigh, this stupid meme again. Fiat money is backed by something - the majority of the time it's backed by real estate, or other real property. Fiat money allow the value of property to be represented as cash. If I build a house there is more value in the world, so there should be more paper money too - without affecting inflation. This is what happens with fiat money. On the other hand if we use gold, then if I create value - a house - you can't also create more gold to match it, so instead I just deflated the value of the gold (i.e. the ratio of value of real propery vs the value of all the gold just changed) - that's bad. Gold money does not, and can not work unless you are in a static economy. Fiat money works in both cases. Please spread the news: the anti fiat money/anti federal reserve/anti fractional reserve banking meme's are dead.
- elai 18y ago
  A currency back by land makes a lot more sense than a currency backed by... nothing, which is the definition of fiat money: 'Fiat money is money that is intrinsically useless; is used only as a medium of exchange' http://economics.about.com/cs/economicsglossary/g/fiat_money.htm http://economics.about.com/cs/economicsglossary/g/fiat_money...
- byrneseyeview 18y ago
  Fiat money is backed by something - the majority of the time it's backed by real estate, or other real property. Does that mean I can redeem my dollar for a specific amount of land or real property? Or do you mean it's 'backed' by such property to the extent that I could trade it for such property, maybe -- in which case the value of everything I own is 'backed' by a diversified portfolio consisting of basically every other asset in the universe. Fiat money allow the value of property to be represented as cash. Any currency allows this. If you have a currency backed by gold, or barrels of oil, or heroin futures, you can represent the value of a house in terms of that currency. In fact, you can represent the house as a single unit of a currency denominated in houses. On the other hand if we use gold, then if I create value - a house - you can't also create more gold to match it, so instead I just deflated the value of the gold (i.e. the ratio of value of real propery vs the value of all the gold just changed) - that's bad. Why is a declining real price level bad? It rewards saving, keeps interest rates low, and makes people want to accumulate productive assets rather than natural resources, property, or other hedges. Also, why do we trust people not to print up more fiat money? I can certainly trust gold miners not to 'print' up more gold -- the market is just too inelastic. Please spread the news: the anti fiat money/anti federal reserve/anti fractional reserve banking meme's are dead. I'm sorry the meme is are dead. It has lasted a surprisingly long time, what with the long history of governments' responsible stewardship over printing presses, banking systems, and the like. Why on earth would anyone think that a fiat system does anything other than adjust, like clockwork, to the size of economy? Why doesn't someone just tell them that $1 in 2008 can buy about as much real estate, food, or clothing that $1 in 1908 could? The dollar is a pretty stable currency, and it hasn't faced any serious crises. So shouldn't its ability to hold most of its value be a great argument in favor of fiat currency? I bet people would even consider your ideas sensible if the dollar had only lost a modest amount of its value -- 5%, 10%, maybe 15%. So, ars, how well has our tailored-to-the-economy, modern, anti-meme fiat currency done during that time period?

aswanson 18y ago

Ron Paul for IMF president and US Treasury secretary.

Dilpil 18y ago

Just because you can't touch something, doesn't mean it isn't real. Just because you do not understand something, doesn't mean it is made up.

nihilocrat 18y ago
Conversely, this is also a reason given to justify stuff like Creationism. Maybe it is just 'that simple'; our current financial crisis is primarily the result of a bunch of people realizing "oh, it's bad to give out huge loans to people who are probably going to default, but sell them like they are AAA loans", or perhaps more precisely "oh, maybe we shouldn't print so much imaginary money to the point where there is not enough real money getting generated to back it up".

ars 18y ago

Sigh, this stupid meme again. Fiat money is backed by something - the majority of the time it's backed by real estate, or other real property. Fiat money allow the value of property to be represented as cash. If I build a house there is more value in the world, so there should be more paper money too - without affecting inflation. This is what happens with fiat money. On the other hand if we use gold, then if I create value - a house - you can't also create more gold to match it, so instead I just deflated the value of the gold (i.e. the ratio of value of real propery vs the value of all the gold just changed) - that's bad. Gold money does not, and can not work unless you are in a static economy. Fiat money works in both cases. Please spread the news: the anti fiat money/anti federal reserve/anti fractional reserve banking meme's are dead.

elai 18y ago
A currency back by land makes a lot more sense than a currency backed by... nothing, which is the definition of fiat money: 'Fiat money is money that is intrinsically useless; is used only as a medium of exchange' http://economics.about.com/cs/economicsglossary/g/fiat_money.htm http://economics.about.com/cs/economicsglossary/g/fiat_money...
byrneseyeview 18y ago
Fiat money is backed by something - the majority of the time it's backed by real estate, or other real property. Does that mean I can redeem my dollar for a specific amount of land or real property? Or do you mean it's 'backed' by such property to the extent that I could trade it for such property, maybe -- in which case the value of everything I own is 'backed' by a diversified portfolio consisting of basically every other asset in the universe. Fiat money allow the value of property to be represented as cash. Any currency allows this. If you have a currency backed by gold, or barrels of oil, or heroin futures, you can represent the value of a house in terms of that currency. In fact, you can represent the house as a single unit of a currency denominated in houses. On the other hand if we use gold, then if I create value - a house - you can't also create more gold to match it, so instead I just deflated the value of the gold (i.e. the ratio of value of real propery vs the value of all the gold just changed) - that's bad. Why is a declining real price level bad? It rewards saving, keeps interest rates low, and makes people want to accumulate productive assets rather than natural resources, property, or other hedges. Also, why do we trust people not to print up more fiat money? I can certainly trust gold miners not to 'print' up more gold -- the market is just too inelastic. Please spread the news: the anti fiat money/anti federal reserve/anti fractional reserve banking meme's are dead. I'm sorry the meme is are dead. It has lasted a surprisingly long time, what with the long history of governments' responsible stewardship over printing presses, banking systems, and the like. Why on earth would anyone think that a fiat system does anything other than adjust, like clockwork, to the size of economy? Why doesn't someone just tell them that $1 in 2008 can buy about as much real estate, food, or clothing that $1 in 1908 could? The dollar is a pretty stable currency, and it hasn't faced any serious crises. So shouldn't its ability to hold most of its value be a great argument in favor of fiat currency? I bet people would even consider your ideas sensible if the dollar had only lost a modest amount of its value -- 5%, 10%, maybe 15%. So, ars, how well has our tailored-to-the-economy, modern, anti-meme fiat currency done during that time period?