6 ms·

My take this is all about OpenPix

toomuchtodo 3y ago
Instant payment networks are an existential crisis for legacy debit and credit rails/networks. Have to go upmarket to value add when you can’t get interchange revenue (in this case, buying an emerging interface to Pix, Brazil’s instant payment system). > Pismo’s platform will also enable Visa to provide support and connectivity for emerging payment rails, like Pix in Brazil, for financial institution clients. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pix_(payment_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pix_(payment_system) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36012262 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36012262
- dmix 3y ago
  Is this basically like Interac Email Transfers that's been in Canada forever? With more mobile-friendly UIs?
  - nidnogg 3y ago
    Well, I'm not sure about Interac Email Transfers as I have not used it. But I have not seen something change up finances here in Brazil as fast like Pix during my life - it's extremely flexible and efficient. The rollout was structured in a way that pretty much every single bank in the country started taking up Pix payments with no friction, so you can send money to almost everywhere. Aside from that, you can setup emails, mobile phones, random hashes, and Brazilian ID numbers as Pix keys to transfer to and fro. And yeah well, the mobile-friendly UI is a thing because most bank apps here have abysmal desktop UIs and I would go as far as saying they have (pretty much) given up on developing those to focus on the mobile user base instead.
  - greiskul 3y ago
    As a Brazilian that moved to Canada, and used both systems. Pix is way more advanced than Interac. The UX is better, the adoption is way higher. I have paid cab drivers in Brazil with Pix, since transfers are instant. It is used by MANY as a substitute for cash. With Interact, there is a time delay sometimes, which makes it not work that well for live payments like this. There are also more use cases covered. Instead of you having to type all the info of you are paying, they can print out a code for you, with the value/their info. So you can just copy/paste/read qr code. This allows business to use Pix to handle internet payments very easy, during checkout, they just generate a Pix code, that you pay and it confirms your payment in a couple of seconds. It is also something that the Central Bank of Brazil setup, so there is no profit motif except for fees charged only to business that use it, to cover operating costs. Every single bank that I'm aware of in Brazil quickly implemented it.
    - dlisboa 3y ago
      Company I work for (Clicksign, a Brazilian e-signature company) also uses PIX for signatory verification. We just make a 10 cent charge on a signatory and when he/she pays we get a callback and now we have valid and up to date information that confirms they are who they say they are. Basically a better e-mail token verification: you know the person actually has access to their bank account and is not an impersonator. We were actually the first to do that, but the advantages of an instant payment system are endless. This same thing could be done for many other use cases.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - moneywoes 3y ago
        Any reason that paradigm can't be used for credit card payments? Perhaps people are reluctant to put in their credit numbers i imagine
        greiskul 3y ago
        A credit card generally is meant to give a person credit. In third world countries, lots of people are poor, and do not have access to credit. The credit cards that they do have access to charge absurdly high interest rate, and most working class people should probably stay away from them.
        dlisboa 3y ago
        There’s that and also credit cards are usually paid, a monthly or yearly, so not everyone has them. Pix is free so penetration is much higher. The degree of fraud with credit cards is huge in Brazil, so for us it wouldn’t bring about trust in a legal setting: someone could’ve just cloned your card and signed a document in your stead, without you ever knowing. Pix has the added benefit that the person needs to physically hold the phone, input the bank passcode and/or biometrics, in order to pay it.
        3y ago
  - jdright 3y ago
    I've used both Interac and Pix. Interac feels like fax compared with internet (pix).
  - ape4 3y ago
    Interac can send text messages too.
  - _fqqr 3y ago
    Jumping on the bandwagon here when it comes to having extensively used both, I second the "Interac/Fax - Pix/Internet" analogy. I won't get into the actual implementation details of both solutions, but the way Pix changed the finance landscape of Brazil is something else. The major difference for me personally is the fact that Pix transfers are instant as in instant messaging instead of Interac's (more often than I'd like) 30min transfers. Also, paying anything via Interac is kind of awkward compared to Pix's UX flows implemented by Brazilian banks. Can't quite explain it but it's there. Pix is one of the things I miss most from Brazil, and I'm glad Canada's Interac is as prevalent as it is otherwise it'd be a huge step down.
    - siproprio 3y ago
      On the UX aspect, Brazil’s central bank has a heavy hand over the PIX experience, going as far as publishing the UX Guidelines[1] as Banking Regulation. [1]: https://www.bcb.gov.br/content/estabilidadefinanceira/pix/Regulamento_Pix/IV_RequisitosMinimosparaExperienciadoUsuario.pdf https://www.bcb.gov.br/content/estabilidadefinanceira/pix/Re...
  - rodrigodlu 3y ago
    Can you pay a popcorn seller in the mid of a street in seconds by just scanning a QR code? Then it debits from your bank account to the popcorn seller account in < 1 second? This is the reason Visa and Mastercard are being beaten hard on this market.
  - lbrito 3y ago
    Also a Brazilian living in Canada. No, Pix is vastly superior to interac. The whole retail banking experience in Canada is very, very far behind what we have in Brazil. A few things that shocked me: * How physical paper cheques are still being used and mailed * Not all banks have scheduled transfers (useful for things like rent) * Large transfers between accounts takes multiple days (wtf) as opposed to a couple of hours (TED) * bizarre scams like "credit card insurance" * not having debit and credit in the same physical card * poor fintech/digital bank ecosystems, nothing close to Nubank I could probably come up with more examples.
- aeyes 3y ago
  To say that Pix is "emerging" is an understatement. Visa basically got their market share in Brazil eaten over night. I don't see how they could any value here, integrating with Pix is straight-forward and not much different from working with other payment providers.
- 111111IIIIIII 3y ago
  > value add The proper phrase is "add value." You're welcome.
- matheusmoreira 3y ago
  Visa and Pix are in completely different categories though. Pix does not provide a line of credit. Pix is an existial threat to banks and their idiotic TED transfers which they charge actual money for. "Banking services" they call it. To that, I say good riddance. Why the hell should anyone pay a bank even one cent for any reason? They should pay us. They should be competing to see who can pay us most for the money we deposit into their fractional reserve scam. It offends me that these banks think they can charge money to update records in a database.
  - soneca 3y ago
    “Pix Crédito” is in the plans of the government [portuguese] https://economia.uol.com.br/noticias/redacao/2023/02/21/pix-credito.amp.htm https://economia.uol.com.br/noticias/redacao/2023/02/21/pix-...
    - matheusmoreira 3y ago
      That's pretty cool, didn't know they were planning that.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    As soneca demonstrates, credit can be extended using instant payment systems, without the need for credit card rails (very similar to Buy Now Pay Later).
rafamvc 3y ago
What is openpix? And why is all about it? Is openpix the backend for pix? Because I can see how pix impacted credit card companies in Brazil.
crossroadsguy 3y ago
That was my first thought as well. Kinda tangential but I am from India and UPI is giving these major global payment networks sleepless nights here. Granted UPI has a long way to go but it is already so ubiquitous and convenient at this point. Google already has a foot in the door and VISA and MC have stated their intention to enter the market few months ago. I guess they might as well do that with an acquisition or two.

Instant payment networks are an existential crisis for legacy debit and credit rails/networks. Have to go upmarket to value add when you can’t get interchange revenue (in this case, buying an emerging interface to Pix, Brazil’s instant payment system). > Pismo’s platform will also enable Visa to provide support and connectivity for emerging payment rails, like Pix in Brazil, for financial institution clients. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pix_(payment_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pix_(payment_system) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36012262 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36012262

dmix 3y ago
Is this basically like Interac Email Transfers that's been in Canada forever? With more mobile-friendly UIs?
- nidnogg 3y ago
  Well, I'm not sure about Interac Email Transfers as I have not used it. But I have not seen something change up finances here in Brazil as fast like Pix during my life - it's extremely flexible and efficient. The rollout was structured in a way that pretty much every single bank in the country started taking up Pix payments with no friction, so you can send money to almost everywhere. Aside from that, you can setup emails, mobile phones, random hashes, and Brazilian ID numbers as Pix keys to transfer to and fro. And yeah well, the mobile-friendly UI is a thing because most bank apps here have abysmal desktop UIs and I would go as far as saying they have (pretty much) given up on developing those to focus on the mobile user base instead.
- greiskul 3y ago
  As a Brazilian that moved to Canada, and used both systems. Pix is way more advanced than Interac. The UX is better, the adoption is way higher. I have paid cab drivers in Brazil with Pix, since transfers are instant. It is used by MANY as a substitute for cash. With Interact, there is a time delay sometimes, which makes it not work that well for live payments like this. There are also more use cases covered. Instead of you having to type all the info of you are paying, they can print out a code for you, with the value/their info. So you can just copy/paste/read qr code. This allows business to use Pix to handle internet payments very easy, during checkout, they just generate a Pix code, that you pay and it confirms your payment in a couple of seconds. It is also something that the Central Bank of Brazil setup, so there is no profit motif except for fees charged only to business that use it, to cover operating costs. Every single bank that I'm aware of in Brazil quickly implemented it.
  - dlisboa 3y ago
    Company I work for (Clicksign, a Brazilian e-signature company) also uses PIX for signatory verification. We just make a 10 cent charge on a signatory and when he/she pays we get a callback and now we have valid and up to date information that confirms they are who they say they are. Basically a better e-mail token verification: you know the person actually has access to their bank account and is not an impersonator. We were actually the first to do that, but the advantages of an instant payment system are endless. This same thing could be done for many other use cases.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - moneywoes 3y ago
      Any reason that paradigm can't be used for credit card payments? Perhaps people are reluctant to put in their credit numbers i imagine
      - greiskul 3y ago
        A credit card generally is meant to give a person credit. In third world countries, lots of people are poor, and do not have access to credit. The credit cards that they do have access to charge absurdly high interest rate, and most working class people should probably stay away from them.
      - dlisboa 3y ago
        There’s that and also credit cards are usually paid, a monthly or yearly, so not everyone has them. Pix is free so penetration is much higher. The degree of fraud with credit cards is huge in Brazil, so for us it wouldn’t bring about trust in a legal setting: someone could’ve just cloned your card and signed a document in your stead, without you ever knowing. Pix has the added benefit that the person needs to physically hold the phone, input the bank passcode and/or biometrics, in order to pay it.
        3y ago
- jdright 3y ago
  I've used both Interac and Pix. Interac feels like fax compared with internet (pix).
- ape4 3y ago
  Interac can send text messages too.
- _fqqr 3y ago
  Jumping on the bandwagon here when it comes to having extensively used both, I second the "Interac/Fax - Pix/Internet" analogy. I won't get into the actual implementation details of both solutions, but the way Pix changed the finance landscape of Brazil is something else. The major difference for me personally is the fact that Pix transfers are instant as in instant messaging instead of Interac's (more often than I'd like) 30min transfers. Also, paying anything via Interac is kind of awkward compared to Pix's UX flows implemented by Brazilian banks. Can't quite explain it but it's there. Pix is one of the things I miss most from Brazil, and I'm glad Canada's Interac is as prevalent as it is otherwise it'd be a huge step down.
  - siproprio 3y ago
    On the UX aspect, Brazil’s central bank has a heavy hand over the PIX experience, going as far as publishing the UX Guidelines[1] as Banking Regulation. [1]: https://www.bcb.gov.br/content/estabilidadefinanceira/pix/Regulamento_Pix/IV_RequisitosMinimosparaExperienciadoUsuario.pdf https://www.bcb.gov.br/content/estabilidadefinanceira/pix/Re...
- rodrigodlu 3y ago
  Can you pay a popcorn seller in the mid of a street in seconds by just scanning a QR code? Then it debits from your bank account to the popcorn seller account in < 1 second? This is the reason Visa and Mastercard are being beaten hard on this market.
- lbrito 3y ago
  Also a Brazilian living in Canada. No, Pix is vastly superior to interac. The whole retail banking experience in Canada is very, very far behind what we have in Brazil. A few things that shocked me: * How physical paper cheques are still being used and mailed * Not all banks have scheduled transfers (useful for things like rent) * Large transfers between accounts takes multiple days (wtf) as opposed to a couple of hours (TED) * bizarre scams like "credit card insurance" * not having debit and credit in the same physical card * poor fintech/digital bank ecosystems, nothing close to Nubank I could probably come up with more examples.
aeyes 3y ago
To say that Pix is "emerging" is an understatement. Visa basically got their market share in Brazil eaten over night. I don't see how they could any value here, integrating with Pix is straight-forward and not much different from working with other payment providers.
111111IIIIIII 3y ago
> value add The proper phrase is "add value." You're welcome.
matheusmoreira 3y ago
Visa and Pix are in completely different categories though. Pix does not provide a line of credit. Pix is an existial threat to banks and their idiotic TED transfers which they charge actual money for. "Banking services" they call it. To that, I say good riddance. Why the hell should anyone pay a bank even one cent for any reason? They should pay us. They should be competing to see who can pay us most for the money we deposit into their fractional reserve scam. It offends me that these banks think they can charge money to update records in a database.
- soneca 3y ago
  “Pix Crédito” is in the plans of the government [portuguese] https://economia.uol.com.br/noticias/redacao/2023/02/21/pix-credito.amp.htm https://economia.uol.com.br/noticias/redacao/2023/02/21/pix-...
  - matheusmoreira 3y ago
    That's pretty cool, didn't know they were planning that.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  As soneca demonstrates, credit can be extended using instant payment systems, without the need for credit card rails (very similar to Buy Now Pay Later).

rafamvc 3y ago

What is openpix? And why is all about it? Is openpix the backend for pix? Because I can see how pix impacted credit card companies in Brazil.

crossroadsguy 3y ago

That was my first thought as well. Kinda tangential but I am from India and UPI is giving these major global payment networks sleepless nights here. Granted UPI has a long way to go but it is already so ubiquitous and convenient at this point. Google already has a foot in the door and VISA and MC have stated their intention to enter the market few months ago. I guess they might as well do that with an acquisition or two.