5 ms·

I see this sentiment a lot on Twitter and Reddit, but it's a an overpressured Copium tank You can see a ton of polished, fun games that weren't successful by j

I see this sentiment a lot on Twitter and Reddit, but it's a an overpressured Copium tank You can see a ton of polished, fun games that weren't successful by just skimming over lists of games on phones, Steam, or Nintendo Switch. I'm not going to bother linking any of them, since you're just going to nitpick and insult the work of random people you don't know, and it won't be a productive path of conversation. That said, you can redefine your idea of "success" a little and make a comfortable living: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmwbYl6f11c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmwbYl6f11c

dimgl 3y ago
> nitpick and insult Sorry, but this is disingenuous. Valid criticism is not "insulting". Additionally I've already watched that video. That developer purposefully made an extremely niche product that only a fraction of people wanted and was able to make a living doing that. Which... proves my point. His games don't have mass appeal at all, so they don't make money. I've been through the Switch catalog. There is so much trash on there that it's unbelievable. In fact, most people will agree that these App Stores are chock full of garbage games. I get ads for garbage mobile games on my Instagram feed all the time. Making a playable game and making a good game are two different things. Most games are simply not good games. Edit: I'd argue that you can't give me a good example because they don't exist. If there was a game you truly loved that was an underrated gem, you'd be super quick to show it. And that's what I'm trying to say: this concept of a polished, good game that is inundated and skipped on by the sheer amount of volume of good games, in my view, simply doesn't exist.
- Firmwarrior 3y ago
  It's not valid criticism though. You just said: > I haven’t found a single scenario where the game wasn’t unfinished, janky and/or just plain unfun. You could easily find lots of problems even with hugely successful games like Vampire Survivors or Enter the Gungeon. I'm fully confident that given a random assortment of fun, polished, shipped games that didn't go viral, you'll be able to come up with a long list of complaints.
  - dimgl 3y ago
    Right but in this argument the onus is on you to find a game that should have been successful, but wasn't, due to the sheer volume of good games, not the other way around. You're making the argument that there lots of games that are polished and deserved some kind of success, and are inundated by other polished games. I'm arguing this simply isn't the case, and most indie devs that have complained about this have not made good, fun games. Flaws or not, Vampire Survivors and Enter the Gungeon found a market because they were fun games that had some redeeming qualities that wasn't widely available on the market at the time. Other examples: Project Zomboid, Shovel Knight, etc. Edit: still waiting on ONE game. Just one. Feel free to edit your comment with a game that deserves more recognition.
    - Firmwarrior 3y ago
      EDIT: This is what I'm talking about. Not a productive conversation. You've convinced yourself that every failed game dev deserved failure, and all you have to do to prove it to yourself is make a half-assed complaint about every game you see. Send me an e-mail and I'll just message you every game I come across that should have been a hit and wasn't, once you get tired of it you can block me
      - sp3n 3y ago
        > should have been a hit and wasn't care to share a few of those on here?
      - dimgl 3y ago
        Why can't you share it here, on Hacker News, for everyone to see? These games deserve more recognition. Please, I want to be proved wrong here.
        Apocryphon 3y ago
        How about much of Obsidian's catalog pre-Pillars of Eternity
hnick 3y ago
A while back I watched a video on YouTube, and I forget the name and creator, but the basic idea was there are too many "good" games. Good just isn't good enough anymore, there are also too many great games to have time to play them all anyway so why waste your time with merely good games? I tend to agree with that when I look back and think of what games I spent my time on in past decades. Cave Story made a huge splash when it helped kick-start the indie revolution, but would anyone notice it now?

dimgl 3y ago

> nitpick and insult Sorry, but this is disingenuous. Valid criticism is not "insulting". Additionally I've already watched that video. That developer purposefully made an extremely niche product that only a fraction of people wanted and was able to make a living doing that. Which... proves my point. His games don't have mass appeal at all, so they don't make money. I've been through the Switch catalog. There is so much trash on there that it's unbelievable. In fact, most people will agree that these App Stores are chock full of garbage games. I get ads for garbage mobile games on my Instagram feed all the time. Making a playable game and making a good game are two different things. Most games are simply not good games. Edit: I'd argue that you can't give me a good example because they don't exist. If there was a game you truly loved that was an underrated gem, you'd be super quick to show it. And that's what I'm trying to say: this concept of a polished, good game that is inundated and skipped on by the sheer amount of volume of good games, in my view, simply doesn't exist.

Firmwarrior 3y ago
It's not valid criticism though. You just said: > I haven’t found a single scenario where the game wasn’t unfinished, janky and/or just plain unfun. You could easily find lots of problems even with hugely successful games like Vampire Survivors or Enter the Gungeon. I'm fully confident that given a random assortment of fun, polished, shipped games that didn't go viral, you'll be able to come up with a long list of complaints.
- dimgl 3y ago
  Right but in this argument the onus is on you to find a game that should have been successful, but wasn't, due to the sheer volume of good games, not the other way around. You're making the argument that there lots of games that are polished and deserved some kind of success, and are inundated by other polished games. I'm arguing this simply isn't the case, and most indie devs that have complained about this have not made good, fun games. Flaws or not, Vampire Survivors and Enter the Gungeon found a market because they were fun games that had some redeeming qualities that wasn't widely available on the market at the time. Other examples: Project Zomboid, Shovel Knight, etc. Edit: still waiting on ONE game. Just one. Feel free to edit your comment with a game that deserves more recognition.
  - Firmwarrior 3y ago
    EDIT: This is what I'm talking about. Not a productive conversation. You've convinced yourself that every failed game dev deserved failure, and all you have to do to prove it to yourself is make a half-assed complaint about every game you see. Send me an e-mail and I'll just message you every game I come across that should have been a hit and wasn't, once you get tired of it you can block me
    - sp3n 3y ago
      > should have been a hit and wasn't care to share a few of those on here?
    - dimgl 3y ago
      Why can't you share it here, on Hacker News, for everyone to see? These games deserve more recognition. Please, I want to be proved wrong here.
      - Apocryphon 3y ago
        How about much of Obsidian's catalog pre-Pillars of Eternity

hnick 3y ago

A while back I watched a video on YouTube, and I forget the name and creator, but the basic idea was there are too many "good" games. Good just isn't good enough anymore, there are also too many great games to have time to play them all anyway so why waste your time with merely good games? I tend to agree with that when I look back and think of what games I spent my time on in past decades. Cave Story made a huge splash when it helped kick-start the indie revolution, but would anyone notice it now?