4 ms·

Not everyone can make this change — the causes of obesity are not well understood. For the morbidly obese, exercise carries risk too — to joints and the heart,

by gumby 3y ago

Not everyone can make this change — the causes of obesity are not well understood. For the morbidly obese, exercise carries risk too — to joints and the heart, for instance. A large weight reduction (whether via GLP-1 antagonists, gastric band, or exogenous trauma) can both motivate and make easier other changes like the ones you advocate.

eggy 3y ago
I think the most obvious causes of obesity are known - higher than needed caloric intake and lack of any activity. All the other factors are piled on top of those two simple facts as to why people cannot work on either or both of those two facts. >> For the morbidly obese, exercise carries risk too — to joints and the heart, for instance. All exercise? Like simply walking 1/2 to 3 miles per day at a leisurely pace? Being morbidly obese carries way more risk, and no amount of meds will help someone who can't bring themselves to even walk somewhere. I know one person who was morbidly obese, had the surgery to limit their capacity to eat, and yes, they look better in clothes, but they are on a ton of meds, and they refuse to walk more. I was in Mekkah and they took the electric cart instead of walking during umrah. Anyone I know who is on mental and/or diet pills are not doing well even after years of following this advice. I don't see the long-term benefits. Hell, I just read an add for some heart supplements on Amazon where people say, "I've been taking it for a week, and I don't feel anything yet." The instant gratification of social media and modern conveniences have softened everyone from taking some self responsibility and applying some self discipline. We can't save everyone who is self destructing. Big Pharma is sure making out like a bandit. Last I had cable TV over 10 years ago, all it had were ads for pills with the cliche afterword on the side effects in lower volume and spoken much more quickly. Isn't it obvious?
- pseudalopex 3y ago
  > Anyone I know who is on mental and/or diet pills are not doing well even after years of following this advice. Many kinds of medicines mitigate not cure. And most people I know do not much discuss medical treatment when it is going well. Especially around people inclined to sanctimonious lectures.
  - eggy 3y ago
    Medicines should not be lifelong except with some exceptions. It is not sanctimony. I am not making a show of being morally superior, but of having common sense. It is also a fearful frustration with the mainstream trying to push on to me that Lizzo and her ilk are examples of a fit, healthy person, while crucifying Adele and Rebel Wilson for losing weight. My older children are well balanced in mind and body, so no apprehension there, but I have young ones again, and I am being diligent that they are not being fed nonsense. They can make up their mind later on the nuances after they learn to read, write, and think analytically. Common sense is evaporating and it seems there is a concerted narrative, an unintentional psy op by those who think they are acting in everyone's best interest founded on feelings of not wanting to offend anyone. Good intentions with horrible results. Sleep, eat moderately and healthy, and move. Walk, do the stairs, don't park right next to the store in the "No Standing" lane, but park your car and walk. Don't use the electric carts at Walmart if you are truly able to walk. Etc.
JimtheCoder 3y ago
"For the morbidly obese, exercise carries risk too — to joints and the heart, for instance" Would any doctor actually tell a morbidly obese person not to exercise, because it would be too risky for their heart? Maybe in the 1900's, but in modern times?
- kyleee 3y ago
  I think you’ve responded a bit uncharitably; a doctor is obviously likely to recommend exercise with the caveat that over exertion can be dangerous, especially for those with excess weight as parent noted.
bostonsre 3y ago
At the end of the day, isn't it just burning more calories than you take in every day to lose weight? If you can't exercise and are gaining weight, shouldn't you be able to reduce calorie intake until you start losing weight. I think we are organic machines, there isn't any magic involved.
- devinmrn 3y ago
  I agree and I'm not understanding the seemingly dissenting opinions in the larger comments. This is basic thermodynamics.
  - gumby 3y ago
    There's more to digestion and metabolism than basic thermo. I mean sure, supply your body with inadequate calories and it will make up the difference by pulling by storage. But that's like saying the steam train and diesel turbine train work the same way: just heat up a fluid to move some metal to turn a crankshaft. The food labels on your food packages are determined by calorimetry. But your body digests some food more readily than other foods, also affected by what else you eat with it, how you prepare it, etc. Also your body encourages you to eat certain things to get various nutrients: you rarely eat those nutrients alone; typically they come along with a bunch of other stuff. Then peoples' feedback systems are heavily influenced by all sorts of things: signals from your gut biome, your emotions and response to social signals and learning, various kinds of signalling reflecting what you eat (and those signals are empirically hacked by food engineers), and random brain bugs, among others. Exercise is hardly scientifically measurable either. It's not like that "calories burned" reading on your bike, is comparable to a bike from a different manufacturer, much less a different kind of exercise.
    - bostonsre 3y ago
      It's hard to be precise about it, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. If you are gaining weight on your current caloric intake and exercise regiment, lower the amount of calories you are eating. Being an advanced sniper that takes into account all the various impacts of physics is great and can work, or you can use tracer bullets and walk in your shot with a simple ooda loop.
fakedang 3y ago
Exercise is only a fraction of the effort for weight loss. You lose weight by reducing your portions. There's even a study of a morbidly obese man losing weight by drinking nothing except vitamin water.

by gumby 3y ago

eggy 3y ago

I think the most obvious causes of obesity are known - higher than needed caloric intake and lack of any activity. All the other factors are piled on top of those two simple facts as to why people cannot work on either or both of those two facts. >> For the morbidly obese, exercise carries risk too — to joints and the heart, for instance. All exercise? Like simply walking 1/2 to 3 miles per day at a leisurely pace? Being morbidly obese carries way more risk, and no amount of meds will help someone who can't bring themselves to even walk somewhere. I know one person who was morbidly obese, had the surgery to limit their capacity to eat, and yes, they look better in clothes, but they are on a ton of meds, and they refuse to walk more. I was in Mekkah and they took the electric cart instead of walking during umrah. Anyone I know who is on mental and/or diet pills are not doing well even after years of following this advice. I don't see the long-term benefits. Hell, I just read an add for some heart supplements on Amazon where people say, "I've been taking it for a week, and I don't feel anything yet." The instant gratification of social media and modern conveniences have softened everyone from taking some self responsibility and applying some self discipline. We can't save everyone who is self destructing. Big Pharma is sure making out like a bandit. Last I had cable TV over 10 years ago, all it had were ads for pills with the cliche afterword on the side effects in lower volume and spoken much more quickly. Isn't it obvious?

pseudalopex 3y ago
> Anyone I know who is on mental and/or diet pills are not doing well even after years of following this advice. Many kinds of medicines mitigate not cure. And most people I know do not much discuss medical treatment when it is going well. Especially around people inclined to sanctimonious lectures.
- eggy 3y ago
  Medicines should not be lifelong except with some exceptions. It is not sanctimony. I am not making a show of being morally superior, but of having common sense. It is also a fearful frustration with the mainstream trying to push on to me that Lizzo and her ilk are examples of a fit, healthy person, while crucifying Adele and Rebel Wilson for losing weight. My older children are well balanced in mind and body, so no apprehension there, but I have young ones again, and I am being diligent that they are not being fed nonsense. They can make up their mind later on the nuances after they learn to read, write, and think analytically. Common sense is evaporating and it seems there is a concerted narrative, an unintentional psy op by those who think they are acting in everyone's best interest founded on feelings of not wanting to offend anyone. Good intentions with horrible results. Sleep, eat moderately and healthy, and move. Walk, do the stairs, don't park right next to the store in the "No Standing" lane, but park your car and walk. Don't use the electric carts at Walmart if you are truly able to walk. Etc.

JimtheCoder 3y ago

"For the morbidly obese, exercise carries risk too — to joints and the heart, for instance" Would any doctor actually tell a morbidly obese person not to exercise, because it would be too risky for their heart? Maybe in the 1900's, but in modern times?

kyleee 3y ago
I think you’ve responded a bit uncharitably; a doctor is obviously likely to recommend exercise with the caveat that over exertion can be dangerous, especially for those with excess weight as parent noted.

bostonsre 3y ago

At the end of the day, isn't it just burning more calories than you take in every day to lose weight? If you can't exercise and are gaining weight, shouldn't you be able to reduce calorie intake until you start losing weight. I think we are organic machines, there isn't any magic involved.

devinmrn 3y ago
I agree and I'm not understanding the seemingly dissenting opinions in the larger comments. This is basic thermodynamics.
- gumby 3y ago
  There's more to digestion and metabolism than basic thermo. I mean sure, supply your body with inadequate calories and it will make up the difference by pulling by storage. But that's like saying the steam train and diesel turbine train work the same way: just heat up a fluid to move some metal to turn a crankshaft. The food labels on your food packages are determined by calorimetry. But your body digests some food more readily than other foods, also affected by what else you eat with it, how you prepare it, etc. Also your body encourages you to eat certain things to get various nutrients: you rarely eat those nutrients alone; typically they come along with a bunch of other stuff. Then peoples' feedback systems are heavily influenced by all sorts of things: signals from your gut biome, your emotions and response to social signals and learning, various kinds of signalling reflecting what you eat (and those signals are empirically hacked by food engineers), and random brain bugs, among others. Exercise is hardly scientifically measurable either. It's not like that "calories burned" reading on your bike, is comparable to a bike from a different manufacturer, much less a different kind of exercise.
  - bostonsre 3y ago
    It's hard to be precise about it, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. If you are gaining weight on your current caloric intake and exercise regiment, lower the amount of calories you are eating. Being an advanced sniper that takes into account all the various impacts of physics is great and can work, or you can use tracer bullets and walk in your shot with a simple ooda loop.

fakedang 3y ago

Exercise is only a fraction of the effort for weight loss. You lose weight by reducing your portions. There's even a study of a morbidly obese man losing weight by drinking nothing except vitamin water.