4 ms·

I think the whole trope that “making a successful game is close to impossible” is overly cynical. I’ve found a few people online say that they don’t understand

by dimgl 3y ago

I think the whole trope that “making a successful game is close to impossible” is overly cynical. I’ve found a few people online say that they don’t understand why their game did really poorly even though it’s like X and does Y AND Z. So I ask them to show me their game. I haven’t found a single scenario where the game wasn’t unfinished, janky and/or just plain unfun. I want to go against the grain here and say if you have a game idea, just make it. But don’t expect people to buy it if it sucks. Like with all good artists, you have to be conscious of whether the thing you’re making is a good product or not. I think the author of this article realized that eventually.

Firmwarrior 3y ago
I see this sentiment a lot on Twitter and Reddit, but it's a an overpressured Copium tank You can see a ton of polished, fun games that weren't successful by just skimming over lists of games on phones, Steam, or Nintendo Switch. I'm not going to bother linking any of them, since you're just going to nitpick and insult the work of random people you don't know, and it won't be a productive path of conversation. That said, you can redefine your idea of "success" a little and make a comfortable living: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmwbYl6f11c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmwbYl6f11c
- dimgl 3y ago
  > nitpick and insult Sorry, but this is disingenuous. Valid criticism is not "insulting". Additionally I've already watched that video. That developer purposefully made an extremely niche product that only a fraction of people wanted and was able to make a living doing that. Which... proves my point. His games don't have mass appeal at all, so they don't make money. I've been through the Switch catalog. There is so much trash on there that it's unbelievable. In fact, most people will agree that these App Stores are chock full of garbage games. I get ads for garbage mobile games on my Instagram feed all the time. Making a playable game and making a good game are two different things. Most games are simply not good games. Edit: I'd argue that you can't give me a good example because they don't exist. If there was a game you truly loved that was an underrated gem, you'd be super quick to show it. And that's what I'm trying to say: this concept of a polished, good game that is inundated and skipped on by the sheer amount of volume of good games, in my view, simply doesn't exist.
  - Firmwarrior 3y ago
    It's not valid criticism though. You just said: > I haven’t found a single scenario where the game wasn’t unfinished, janky and/or just plain unfun. You could easily find lots of problems even with hugely successful games like Vampire Survivors or Enter the Gungeon. I'm fully confident that given a random assortment of fun, polished, shipped games that didn't go viral, you'll be able to come up with a long list of complaints.
    - dimgl 3y ago
      Right but in this argument the onus is on you to find a game that should have been successful, but wasn't, due to the sheer volume of good games, not the other way around. You're making the argument that there lots of games that are polished and deserved some kind of success, and are inundated by other polished games. I'm arguing this simply isn't the case, and most indie devs that have complained about this have not made good, fun games. Flaws or not, Vampire Survivors and Enter the Gungeon found a market because they were fun games that had some redeeming qualities that wasn't widely available on the market at the time. Other examples: Project Zomboid, Shovel Knight, etc. Edit: still waiting on ONE game. Just one. Feel free to edit your comment with a game that deserves more recognition.
      - Firmwarrior 3y ago
        EDIT: This is what I'm talking about. Not a productive conversation. You've convinced yourself that every failed game dev deserved failure, and all you have to do to prove it to yourself is make a half-assed complaint about every game you see. Send me an e-mail and I'll just message you every game I come across that should have been a hit and wasn't, once you get tired of it you can block me
        sp3n 3y ago
        > should have been a hit and wasn't care to share a few of those on here?
        dimgl 3y ago
- hnick 3y ago
  A while back I watched a video on YouTube, and I forget the name and creator, but the basic idea was there are too many "good" games. Good just isn't good enough anymore, there are also too many great games to have time to play them all anyway so why waste your time with merely good games? I tend to agree with that when I look back and think of what games I spent my time on in past decades. Cave Story made a huge splash when it helped kick-start the indie revolution, but would anyone notice it now?
bmalicoat 3y ago
I agree that there are lots of poorly made games that predictably flop. However, it's also worth noting all the bits of a game that matter outside of the executable. Knowing where your audience hangs out and how to reach them, having the ability to make compelling trailers and screenshots, having press contacts to help promote your game, crafting a viable monetization strategy, etc. All these things matter more than most observers would think when differentiating between known and unknown games. It also really depends how you define "successful". I've put out 3 mobile games in the last few years as a solo or mostly-solo game dev[1]. Each one has been game of the day on iOS and received other prominent featuring. From a critical and editorial standpoint my games were successful. From a "is this a sustainable career that supports me financially" standpoint, not so much. [1] You can find my games at https://birdcartel.com https://birdcartel.com Let me know if you think they fall into the unfun/janky bucket.
- dimgl 3y ago
  Hey! Cool games! I think mobile is a different beast altogether. A majority of the games I was talking about are on the PC/console market where players tend to have a lot of disposable income and rely on stores (like Steam, Nintendo Shop) to find games. Mobile is much harder. I think that is one medium where I agree that the OP is right. Because the games tend to be simpler, the barrier of entry is reduced drastically, so it's much harder to have sucecss. Serious gamers won't play mobile game and casual gamers are fickle, so just making a "good game" on mobile doesn't apply. I think it's especially true for word games (I saw you made two). Nonetheless, your games look cool! I don't think they're games I'd spend more than a couple of minutes on (much less spend money on), but who knows? I think you should keep making more. The last word/numbers game I spent money on was Threes, and that was only because I heard about how 2048 stole the concept from that game. Not sure if that context even helps. Thanks for sharing and providing some concrete examples.

by dimgl 3y ago

Firmwarrior 3y ago

I see this sentiment a lot on Twitter and Reddit, but it's a an overpressured Copium tank You can see a ton of polished, fun games that weren't successful by just skimming over lists of games on phones, Steam, or Nintendo Switch. I'm not going to bother linking any of them, since you're just going to nitpick and insult the work of random people you don't know, and it won't be a productive path of conversation. That said, you can redefine your idea of "success" a little and make a comfortable living: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmwbYl6f11c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmwbYl6f11c

dimgl 3y ago
> nitpick and insult Sorry, but this is disingenuous. Valid criticism is not "insulting". Additionally I've already watched that video. That developer purposefully made an extremely niche product that only a fraction of people wanted and was able to make a living doing that. Which... proves my point. His games don't have mass appeal at all, so they don't make money. I've been through the Switch catalog. There is so much trash on there that it's unbelievable. In fact, most people will agree that these App Stores are chock full of garbage games. I get ads for garbage mobile games on my Instagram feed all the time. Making a playable game and making a good game are two different things. Most games are simply not good games. Edit: I'd argue that you can't give me a good example because they don't exist. If there was a game you truly loved that was an underrated gem, you'd be super quick to show it. And that's what I'm trying to say: this concept of a polished, good game that is inundated and skipped on by the sheer amount of volume of good games, in my view, simply doesn't exist.
- Firmwarrior 3y ago
  It's not valid criticism though. You just said: > I haven’t found a single scenario where the game wasn’t unfinished, janky and/or just plain unfun. You could easily find lots of problems even with hugely successful games like Vampire Survivors or Enter the Gungeon. I'm fully confident that given a random assortment of fun, polished, shipped games that didn't go viral, you'll be able to come up with a long list of complaints.
  - dimgl 3y ago
    Right but in this argument the onus is on you to find a game that should have been successful, but wasn't, due to the sheer volume of good games, not the other way around. You're making the argument that there lots of games that are polished and deserved some kind of success, and are inundated by other polished games. I'm arguing this simply isn't the case, and most indie devs that have complained about this have not made good, fun games. Flaws or not, Vampire Survivors and Enter the Gungeon found a market because they were fun games that had some redeeming qualities that wasn't widely available on the market at the time. Other examples: Project Zomboid, Shovel Knight, etc. Edit: still waiting on ONE game. Just one. Feel free to edit your comment with a game that deserves more recognition.
    - Firmwarrior 3y ago
      EDIT: This is what I'm talking about. Not a productive conversation. You've convinced yourself that every failed game dev deserved failure, and all you have to do to prove it to yourself is make a half-assed complaint about every game you see. Send me an e-mail and I'll just message you every game I come across that should have been a hit and wasn't, once you get tired of it you can block me
      - sp3n 3y ago
        > should have been a hit and wasn't care to share a few of those on here?
      - dimgl 3y ago
hnick 3y ago
A while back I watched a video on YouTube, and I forget the name and creator, but the basic idea was there are too many "good" games. Good just isn't good enough anymore, there are also too many great games to have time to play them all anyway so why waste your time with merely good games? I tend to agree with that when I look back and think of what games I spent my time on in past decades. Cave Story made a huge splash when it helped kick-start the indie revolution, but would anyone notice it now?

bmalicoat 3y ago

I agree that there are lots of poorly made games that predictably flop. However, it's also worth noting all the bits of a game that matter outside of the executable. Knowing where your audience hangs out and how to reach them, having the ability to make compelling trailers and screenshots, having press contacts to help promote your game, crafting a viable monetization strategy, etc. All these things matter more than most observers would think when differentiating between known and unknown games. It also really depends how you define "successful". I've put out 3 mobile games in the last few years as a solo or mostly-solo game dev[1]. Each one has been game of the day on iOS and received other prominent featuring. From a critical and editorial standpoint my games were successful. From a "is this a sustainable career that supports me financially" standpoint, not so much. [1] You can find my games at https://birdcartel.com https://birdcartel.com Let me know if you think they fall into the unfun/janky bucket.

dimgl 3y ago
Hey! Cool games! I think mobile is a different beast altogether. A majority of the games I was talking about are on the PC/console market where players tend to have a lot of disposable income and rely on stores (like Steam, Nintendo Shop) to find games. Mobile is much harder. I think that is one medium where I agree that the OP is right. Because the games tend to be simpler, the barrier of entry is reduced drastically, so it's much harder to have sucecss. Serious gamers won't play mobile game and casual gamers are fickle, so just making a "good game" on mobile doesn't apply. I think it's especially true for word games (I saw you made two). Nonetheless, your games look cool! I don't think they're games I'd spend more than a couple of minutes on (much less spend money on), but who knows? I think you should keep making more. The last word/numbers game I spent money on was Threes, and that was only because I heard about how 2048 stole the concept from that game. Not sure if that context even helps. Thanks for sharing and providing some concrete examples.