5 ms·
This is interesting, and I suppose has a use of "data over time" but I fail to see how this testing is of any actionable value for the average person. So you're
by ShakataGaNai 3y ago
This is interesting, and I suppose has a use of "data over time" but I fail to see how this testing is of any actionable value for the average person. So you're exposed, and PFAS is in EVERYTHING.... so ... what should I do? Nothing realistically. Unless I find an obvious source like my water, there isn't much I can do besides replacing my cooking pans. I can replace my pans without this test.
It's a little like those ads to sell you a full body MRI. Most doctors recommend against them because you're likely to do more harm to yourself than they actually fix something.
If you're concerned about PFAS, live a healthy life and skip spending money on the testing. Live somewhere with PFAS in the water? Get a reverse osmosis filter. Replace your cookware with something that doesn't contain PFAS. Don't use storage containers for food with PFAS. Check your water bottles.
Then live your life, because until we change as a society, there is only so much you can do.
- mdrew 3y agoI think for certain high risk populations, specifically pregnant women or women planning on becoming pregnant, it makes sense. Based on the new clinical recommendations, my 10.86 ng/mL level puts me at elevated risk for preeclampsia (if I were a women/pregnant). Knowing that could mean my BP during pregnancy is more closely monitored, with a BP cuff for example.
- ShakataGaNai 3y agoThat's fair. So like any other testing, this is only useful for a small population, and you should consult your doctor first.
- mdrew 3y agoYou'd want a good reason to test
- prepend 3y ago> I think for certain high risk populations, specifically pregnant women or women planning on becoming pregnant, it makes sense. Does it though? What will a pregnant woman do based on her results? Will having PFAS affect someone’s decision about becoming pregnant? Pregnant women are going to monitor BP anyway. And the intervention is $100 for a BP cuff so that’s cheaper than the test. So we’re better off just recommending monitoring BP more closely than this test.
- mdrew 3y agoSince this is an out of pocket test not covered by medicaid/medicare, I don't know if the value based care argument is that relevant. I know what you're saying though. The value we provide: If people want to know, they can now know. I also think not making the test accessible also has downsides.
- prepend 3y agoIt’s good the test is available. What I mean is what would justify someone spending $400. The example of pregnancy is not a good one, as someone is better off just monitoring blood pressure (which is already common advice for all expectant mothers) for $100 instead of paying for this test. I think value based healthcare is more important when people pay themselves. Since there’s no intervention based on the results, it’s not a good idea for people until the results are actionable.
- 0cf8612b2e1e 3y agoTime to start blood letting. A human has ~5 liters of blood and blood donations are 0.5 liters, every two months. So with a year of effort, could cut your levels in half (0.9^6 = 53%).
- prepend 3y agoAccording to their site you should consult an attorney. This falls into the “neat, but what can I do” category and at $400, someone really needs to be into self data.
- ShakataGaNai 3y agoWell $400 for them to order the test for you, then however much for quest to actually do the test.
- mdrew 3y agoI would also say this attitude was pervasive when we used leaded gasoline, which widely contaminated the biosphere, roads and people. It's everywhere. We all have it. Why bother. I think we now know there's no safe level of lead in the blood. If you have suspected exposure in 2023, doctors quantify your lead level through a blood test and if it's elevated, recommend a medical procedure called chelation to remove it. With PFAS, the medicine is just starting to catch up to the horrors of the news cycle. But I think in the future, PFAS contamination is going to be treated in a similar way to lead exposure. That is, medically. But right now, it's easy to throw up ones hands and say, it's all fucked. Why bother doing anything.
- dingnuts 3y agoCorrect me if I am wrong, but I thought the global lead poisoning hypothesis that was popularized by Neil DeGrasse Tyson's remake of Cosmos was determined to be based on extremely scant evidence and may have been outright false
- JBorrow 3y agoWhat are you talking about? This is an ongoing global public health crisis: https://www.who.int/news/item/23-10-2022-almost-1-million-people-die-every-year-due-to-lead-poisoning--with-more-children-suffering-long-term-health-effects https://www.who.int/news/item/23-10-2022-almost-1-million-pe...
- rcme 3y agoA recent study in New Zealand found that blood lead levels of 3.5 micrograms / dL, which is the lowest easily detectable level, were associated with a drop of 1 IQ. People during the times of lead paint and leaded gasoline often had levels of 80 micrograms / dL. It seriously messed them up.
- mdrew 3y agoOur first version of the site was PFAS.wtf but that didn't test well
- 3y ago
- mhardcastle 3y agoDonating blood or plasma has evidence of reducing pfas. If I knew I had high measured levels, I'd certainly think about doing it more. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8994130/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8994130/
- haskellandchill 3y agoAre you giving someone bad blood in that case?
- npongratz 3y agoI can direct you to answers I got a couple weeks ago when I asked a similar question: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36261100 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36261100
- bauruine 3y agoThe negative health effects of PFAS are completely irrelevant if the alternative to this "bad blood" is death.
- giantg2 3y agoGenerally agree, but that could be true of many other things like lead too. So we have to be careful not to take it to the extreme.
- mianosm 3y agoNot always, as quite often the donation is on hand, but not necessarily used. Also: better to save a life and either average down whatever PFA count they have, or bolster their blood volume so they can start producing their own lower PFA infested hemoglobin. Lesser of evils, and kind of a win win: if everyone was blood letting for the safety and humanity of others.
- jsharf 3y agoWell, assuming they likely have some PFAS already in their system, you might just be giving them blood with the same concentration of PFAS that they already have.
- ars 3y agoThere's tons of things you can do. What you should not bother doing is replacing your cooking pans because PFAS does not come from that. (Nor does it come from food storage containers or water bottles.) The first thing to do is avoid paper dishes, no paper straws or any other kind of compostable dishware. The are frequently sprayed with PFAS to make them waterproof, and unless you are buying them yourself and checking you have no way to know what kind they are. Avoid snowboarding - snowboards (and skis also I think) are sprayed with PFAS to make them slippery. The snow in the area will be covered in it, so just don't do that kind of sport. Check your outdoor clothing, and kind of breathable clothing that is also waterproof is most likely coated with PFAS to make that happen. This is not just rain jackets, but also active-wear advertised as "quick drying". Add a carbon filter (any kind) to your drinking water, you don't need reverse osmossis, carbon works fine. And helps for tons of other things you don't know are in there - plus it tastes better. As a general rule any time you see an object that should get soaked with water stay dry be careful!
- mdrew 3y agoThose waterproof jackets from REI that magically shed water droplets... for 9 months until the coating wears off and your jacket is just soggy
- upsidesinclude 3y ago>so ... what should I do? >replace my pans >Get a reverse osmosis filter. Replace your cookware with something that doesn't contain PFAS. Don't use storage containers for food with PFAS. Check your water bottles. Oh, so all of that would be a good start for anyone and everyone. The test can help to determine if something, like blood donation, might be a reasonable course of action for a specific person. This is a great test and a worthwhile addition to our understanding of how prevalent these substances are within the the body. Any reduction of PFAS in the blood would be beneficial as they are endocrine disruptors.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- eutectic 3y agoPFAS are used in the manufacture of teflon pans, but teflon pans themselves are not a major source (as I understand it).