10 ms·

What makes u think they'll stay?. First chance they get they'll move back to the USA because the salaries are that much better.

xbonez 3y ago
5 years to Canadian citizenship is a strong reason to stay. Indians on H1B in the US are looking at about 7-10 years for a Greencard, and then an additional 5 years after that for citizenship. As a datapoint: I immigrated to the US in 2008. After 5 years on an F1 visa and 10 years on an H1B, I'm still at least 10 more years away from being freed from the immigration and visa hassle.
- TMWNN 3y ago
  So when are you planning to move to Canada? No? Could it be because you and I both know that FAANG companies' Canadian offices are basically places to stash those who cannot and will not ever get US visas, plus the occasional native Canadian who does not want to move to the US for family reasons?
  - amrocha 3y ago
    You're both underestimating how many people would hate to live in the US, and overestimating how high salaries in the US are compared to Canada
    - TMWNN 3y ago
      First, your answer has nothing to do with my question to xbonez about why, despite his being stuck in the US H-1B morass, he did not mention planning to take up this offer. Second, your supposition of my under/overestimation has nothing to do with the factual composition of FAANG and other US tech companies' Canadian offices. As I said, they are a) mostly people who cannot and will not ever get US visas (i.e., those who didn't make the first hurdle that xbonez was lucky enough to cross), and b) a few native Canadians who for one reason or another don't want to move to the US.
      - amrocha 3y ago
        Again, literally not true. There's plenty of people that would hate to live in the US, and much prefer Canada. Plenty of immigrants. Those people work in the Canadian offices. I don't know if you know this, but the rest of the world considers the US to be kind of a terrible place. Sure, it might be better than home, but Canada is way better than both.
        hot_gril 3y ago
        Are you saying it's harder to get Canadian citizenship, and that's the only reason people go to the US instead? A lot of my college friends were Chinese-Canadian-Americans alleging that Canada was just their stepping stone to the US, but that's only my experience.
        TMWNN 3y ago
        > A lot of my college friends where Chinese-Canadian-Americans alleging that Canada was just their stepping stone to the US. Basically, yes. According to the Canadian government <http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-008-x/2010002/article/11287-eng.htm http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-008-x/2010002/article/11287-...> (table 1), for every two Canadian-born people moving to the US, one person born outside the US or Canada moves from Canada to the US. Given that during 2001-2006 20% or less of Canada were immigrants <https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/221026/g-a001-eng.htm https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/221026/g-a00...>, that implies that a Canadian resident born outside the US or Canada is about 50% more likely to move to the US than a Canadian native. I've heard that New Zealand is similarly used by those seeking to move to Australia.
        kafkaesque 3y ago
        I'm Canadian and every single Canadian with a computer science degree I know either has moved to the US or is actively trying to. We are essentially trading in highly skilled developers with low skilled ones, with some exceptions, of course
        3y ago
    - red-iron-pine 3y ago
      > and overestimating how high salaries in the US are compared to Canada As an American STEM worker in Canada: salaries are definitely higher in the US. Not even close in some cases, easily a 40% difference for high-end roles. And while COL is high in SF or NYC, it's just as crazy in Greater Toronto or Vancouver but the salaries have not kept up. Make no mistake, you can still do pretty well, but I could probably double my salary if I moved back to the big US East Coast city that I'm from. Long-term I'm not optimistic about the US economy and culture, and my wife wouldn't be a fan, so I'm willing to miss out -- but sometimes it stings knowing what options are out there.
      - Dig1t 3y ago
        >but sometimes it stings knowing what options are out there. Yeah I made the sacrifice and lived in the Bay, crammed into a hacker house for a few years. It totally sucks, but working with all those smart people and stashing the money completely changed my life. Definitely a sacrifice I’d make again
      - amrocha 3y ago
        I feel you, it can be hard knowing that you could be making more money across the border. However, I don't know if I agree with you about SF and NYC being equivalent to Toronto and Vancouver. They're just not. We complain about rent in Canada, but SF/NYC rent is another level of bullshit. And general expenses are definitely more expensive as well, I know I feel it whenever I travel to the US. The other thing is that in most US cities you have to pay for a car. That's just not true in Canada. This makes up a huge part of the income gap.
  - hot_gril 3y ago
    You could've simply asked why he prefers US citizenship over Canadian citizenship without being aggressive.
owenwil 3y ago
Doubt it. It’s not only about money, and Canadian salaries are improving dramatically. I moved to Canada in 2019, already have permanent residency with plans to get citizenship this year. There are many non-monetary reasons to live in Canada (healthcare, Childcare for $10/day, etc).
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
red-iron-pine 3y ago
* remote work for US firms is an option. I've done it as a PR in Canada. * free healthcare, but only if you're in the CAN 51% of the year; they track this now * strong immigrant cultures, esp. in areas like Vancouver or Brampton * 5 years to citizenship, and then able to get NAFTA TN visas to the US, but still have a Canadian fall-back * reasonable flights to warm parts of the US, without having to live in Sheriff Joe's AZ or Meatball Ron's Floridian Dystopia * winters can be rough but 1st world means they're tolerable, and that's a downside that can be worked around
- anon291 3y ago
  "Meatball Ron's Floridian dystopia" has one of the highest share of immigrants living there of any us state. 21% of the state is immigrants. Compare to 27% California, and 23% NJ/NY. Given that NJ/NY and CA have the two largest cities in the country which are natural destinations, I actually think florida looks all the more impressive. Miami is large, but not LA / NY large. Look... we get you don't like him, but his state is home to more immigrants than most of the country, and pulls above his weight. How about we let the immigrants decide what state best suits them?

xbonez 3y ago

5 years to Canadian citizenship is a strong reason to stay. Indians on H1B in the US are looking at about 7-10 years for a Greencard, and then an additional 5 years after that for citizenship. As a datapoint: I immigrated to the US in 2008. After 5 years on an F1 visa and 10 years on an H1B, I'm still at least 10 more years away from being freed from the immigration and visa hassle.

TMWNN 3y ago
So when are you planning to move to Canada? No? Could it be because you and I both know that FAANG companies' Canadian offices are basically places to stash those who cannot and will not ever get US visas, plus the occasional native Canadian who does not want to move to the US for family reasons?
- amrocha 3y ago
  You're both underestimating how many people would hate to live in the US, and overestimating how high salaries in the US are compared to Canada
  - TMWNN 3y ago
    First, your answer has nothing to do with my question to xbonez about why, despite his being stuck in the US H-1B morass, he did not mention planning to take up this offer. Second, your supposition of my under/overestimation has nothing to do with the factual composition of FAANG and other US tech companies' Canadian offices. As I said, they are a) mostly people who cannot and will not ever get US visas (i.e., those who didn't make the first hurdle that xbonez was lucky enough to cross), and b) a few native Canadians who for one reason or another don't want to move to the US.
    - amrocha 3y ago
      Again, literally not true. There's plenty of people that would hate to live in the US, and much prefer Canada. Plenty of immigrants. Those people work in the Canadian offices. I don't know if you know this, but the rest of the world considers the US to be kind of a terrible place. Sure, it might be better than home, but Canada is way better than both.
      - hot_gril 3y ago
        Are you saying it's harder to get Canadian citizenship, and that's the only reason people go to the US instead? A lot of my college friends were Chinese-Canadian-Americans alleging that Canada was just their stepping stone to the US, but that's only my experience.
        TMWNN 3y ago
        > A lot of my college friends where Chinese-Canadian-Americans alleging that Canada was just their stepping stone to the US. Basically, yes. According to the Canadian government <http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-008-x/2010002/article/11287-eng.htm http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-008-x/2010002/article/11287-...> (table 1), for every two Canadian-born people moving to the US, one person born outside the US or Canada moves from Canada to the US. Given that during 2001-2006 20% or less of Canada were immigrants <https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/221026/g-a001-eng.htm https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/221026/g-a00...>, that implies that a Canadian resident born outside the US or Canada is about 50% more likely to move to the US than a Canadian native. I've heard that New Zealand is similarly used by those seeking to move to Australia.
        kafkaesque 3y ago
        I'm Canadian and every single Canadian with a computer science degree I know either has moved to the US or is actively trying to. We are essentially trading in highly skilled developers with low skilled ones, with some exceptions, of course
        3y ago
  - red-iron-pine 3y ago
    > and overestimating how high salaries in the US are compared to Canada As an American STEM worker in Canada: salaries are definitely higher in the US. Not even close in some cases, easily a 40% difference for high-end roles. And while COL is high in SF or NYC, it's just as crazy in Greater Toronto or Vancouver but the salaries have not kept up. Make no mistake, you can still do pretty well, but I could probably double my salary if I moved back to the big US East Coast city that I'm from. Long-term I'm not optimistic about the US economy and culture, and my wife wouldn't be a fan, so I'm willing to miss out -- but sometimes it stings knowing what options are out there.
    - Dig1t 3y ago
      >but sometimes it stings knowing what options are out there. Yeah I made the sacrifice and lived in the Bay, crammed into a hacker house for a few years. It totally sucks, but working with all those smart people and stashing the money completely changed my life. Definitely a sacrifice I’d make again
    - amrocha 3y ago
      I feel you, it can be hard knowing that you could be making more money across the border. However, I don't know if I agree with you about SF and NYC being equivalent to Toronto and Vancouver. They're just not. We complain about rent in Canada, but SF/NYC rent is another level of bullshit. And general expenses are definitely more expensive as well, I know I feel it whenever I travel to the US. The other thing is that in most US cities you have to pay for a car. That's just not true in Canada. This makes up a huge part of the income gap.
- hot_gril 3y ago
  You could've simply asked why he prefers US citizenship over Canadian citizenship without being aggressive.

owenwil 3y ago

Doubt it. It’s not only about money, and Canadian salaries are improving dramatically. I moved to Canada in 2019, already have permanent residency with plans to get citizenship this year. There are many non-monetary reasons to live in Canada (healthcare, Childcare for $10/day, etc).

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

red-iron-pine 3y ago

* remote work for US firms is an option. I've done it as a PR in Canada. * free healthcare, but only if you're in the CAN 51% of the year; they track this now * strong immigrant cultures, esp. in areas like Vancouver or Brampton * 5 years to citizenship, and then able to get NAFTA TN visas to the US, but still have a Canadian fall-back * reasonable flights to warm parts of the US, without having to live in Sheriff Joe's AZ or Meatball Ron's Floridian Dystopia * winters can be rough but 1st world means they're tolerable, and that's a downside that can be worked around

anon291 3y ago
"Meatball Ron's Floridian dystopia" has one of the highest share of immigrants living there of any us state. 21% of the state is immigrants. Compare to 27% California, and 23% NJ/NY. Given that NJ/NY and CA have the two largest cities in the country which are natural destinations, I actually think florida looks all the more impressive. Miami is large, but not LA / NY large. Look... we get you don't like him, but his state is home to more immigrants than most of the country, and pulls above his weight. How about we let the immigrants decide what state best suits them?