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The definition of marriage in the Church has little to do with the legal definition of marriage - except for the fact that the Church is trying to impose its vi

The definition of marriage in the Church has little to do with the legal definition of marriage - except for the fact that the Church is trying to impose its views on the law where it suits them. Also, different christian denominations have different beliefs about the purpose of marriage. Sex outside of marriage is definitely sinful in all of the mainstream christian churches, though they differ on how sinful sex is in the context of a marriage. I'd also note that, while wedding ceremonies commonly talk of kids, there is no obligation to have kids as part of a marriage. For example, the church is perfectly happy to marry an old woman with a man, even though it is absolutely certain she can't have kids anymore. Overall, the orthodox/fundamentalist christian position seems to be: sex should only be done for the purpose of making children, only married couples should have sex, and anyone capable of having children should strive to have more children. LGBTQ+ people are not exempted - at least if they are physically capable of having children, they shouldn't let their personal preferences get in the way of their duty to God - so they should also seek to enter a heterosexual marriage to have children. The only exception to all of this is choosing to become a monk or priest (depending on denomination) - in which case you owe a duty of faith to God and thus shouldn't love other men or women anyway.

dcow 3y ago
The legal definition of marriage is a topic I didn't want to get into for the scope of my comment, but you're right. I think the bestTM thing for society would be to just separate the language entirely and call all legal arrangements "unions" and handle the economic subsidies in a gender agnostic and results oriented way (e.g. you get a cohabitation tax break and/or filing status, unions of people can enter contracts and own property like a multi-member llc would and division of said property and contractual obligations is handled by the courts if unions are dissolved, and you get tax breaks for number of dependents you have, etc.). Let religions say what they want about religious marriage, but don't let that impact any legal and free (as in "freedom of/from religion") handling of civil economic affairs. I 100% agree that religious bodies have no grounds to impose their beliefs legally on society. In the US religion has no place in law.
dragonwriter 3y ago
> Overall, the orthodox/fundamentalist christian position seems to be: sex should only be done for the purpose of making children, only married couples should have sex, and anyone capable of having children should strive to have more children. It doesn’t really map to either “fundamentalist” or “orthodox” in the usual theological senses (though its more associated with the former), particularly the “anyone capable of having children should strive to have more children” part, which is a modern social movement overlapping with some streams of Christianity, but not really a part of traditional doctrine. > The only exception to all of this is choosing to become a monk or priest (depending on denomination) - in which case you owe a duty of faith to God and thus shouldn’t love other men or women anyway. The branches of Christianity that have celibate religious brothers and/or clerical celibacy are also the most accepting of the concept of a vocation of committed single Christian life outside of clerical life and religious orders; there is basically no Christian community I am aware of where monastic/priestly celibacy is a norm but it is the only acceptable non-married life.

dcow 3y ago

The legal definition of marriage is a topic I didn't want to get into for the scope of my comment, but you're right. I think the bestTM thing for society would be to just separate the language entirely and call all legal arrangements "unions" and handle the economic subsidies in a gender agnostic and results oriented way (e.g. you get a cohabitation tax break and/or filing status, unions of people can enter contracts and own property like a multi-member llc would and division of said property and contractual obligations is handled by the courts if unions are dissolved, and you get tax breaks for number of dependents you have, etc.). Let religions say what they want about religious marriage, but don't let that impact any legal and free (as in "freedom of/from religion") handling of civil economic affairs. I 100% agree that religious bodies have no grounds to impose their beliefs legally on society. In the US religion has no place in law.

dragonwriter 3y ago

> Overall, the orthodox/fundamentalist christian position seems to be: sex should only be done for the purpose of making children, only married couples should have sex, and anyone capable of having children should strive to have more children. It doesn’t really map to either “fundamentalist” or “orthodox” in the usual theological senses (though its more associated with the former), particularly the “anyone capable of having children should strive to have more children” part, which is a modern social movement overlapping with some streams of Christianity, but not really a part of traditional doctrine. > The only exception to all of this is choosing to become a monk or priest (depending on denomination) - in which case you owe a duty of faith to God and thus shouldn’t love other men or women anyway. The branches of Christianity that have celibate religious brothers and/or clerical celibacy are also the most accepting of the concept of a vocation of committed single Christian life outside of clerical life and religious orders; there is basically no Christian community I am aware of where monastic/priestly celibacy is a norm but it is the only acceptable non-married life.