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CSAM's going to get a lot weirder with AI image manipulation and autocompleting and nudify-ing images. And combined with this ruling about Japanese hentai with

by pierat 3y ago

CSAM's going to get a lot weirder with AI image manipulation and autocompleting and nudify-ing images. And combined with this ruling about Japanese hentai with depiction of minors is legal to possess and sell: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Handley https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Handley So, what happens when (not if) someone uses https://thispersondoesnotexist.com/ https://thispersondoesnotexist.com/ and gets children pictures, then generates them nude and doing sex acts? This is basically the same argument as above. The children aren't real, and the sex acts arent real. The bigger problem is "how do you tell if this image is a proof of a child rape or just AI generated?" I'm going more and more towards "CSAM is evidence of a crime, and shouldn't be a crime in of itself" side of things. However, even though I'd advocate in removing strict liability of possession of CSAM, I'm still for death penalty for any human who rapes children (we're talking under puberty, not 17yr olds etc).

qingcharles 3y ago
The case you cited is only federal law. Many states in the USA banned CGI depictions of CSAM as a result of cases like that, so computer-generated imagery, and child sex dolls are not permitted across a large section of the country, for better or worse. I have no opinion on it as I don't know if access to items such as these which involve no real children make the majority of those interested more or less likely to physically offend. I am sure for some it mitigates their desires, and for others it accentuates them. I am not a psychologist.
tennisflyi 3y ago
CSAM AI articles have just popped up.
buckleberry12 3y ago
Framed as crime scene evidence, it is kind of strange that simply possessing it, for any reason, is a serious crime worth decades in prison. The pedophiles are voluntarily taking pictures and videos of themselves committing crimes and sharing it on the internet. I am sure that if internet sleuths were allowed to investigate such material, like law enforcement is, many, many more child abusers would ultimately get caught. Distributing it should obviously still be illegal, but banning simple possession doesn't stop traffickers (obviously) and eliminates an enormous free workforce of amateur sleuths who I am sure would seriously help the problem. They have helped solved many cold case murders that police never could. It's kind of creepy in a way when you think about it. No other crime scene evidence is guarded in that way. Is it illegal to possess photos/videos of someone getting stabbed, shot, beheaded, etc? Surely there are people who derive sexual pleasure from that material too, yet it proliferates and no one really cares. It's almost as if the powers that be REALLY don't want the general public to know who's behind some of this stuff. We already know very rich and powerful people are routinely involved in child sex rings... And the AI image generation stuff makes it even more dangerous and ridiculous. So we're approaching a time when someone can just generate some images locally with stable diffusion or whatever of what looks like CSAM (but no actual children involved), get it into your possession (either remotely or just dropping an SD card in your house somewhere you don't see) and now you are liable for decades in prison...hopefully you don't have any enemies.
- qingcharles 3y ago
  I had a competitor to my TV torrent site who would call PayPal on a monthly basis and claim our site was selling CSAM. PayPal would be forced to immediately block the account and do a thorough investigation to exonerate us (though weirdly they didn't care about the piracy). It is a fantastic ruse to destroy someone's legitimate business though as the payment providers cannot ignore the complaint, even if it is made repeatedly and regularly and is clearly bogus.
- JPws_Prntr_Fngr 3y ago
  Very good point I haven't ever seen posed before. And here's another angle: the unconditional felony possession thing is extremely convenient if you're looking to frame someone. Whether it's drugs, CP, or some other material.

by pierat 3y ago

qingcharles 3y ago

The case you cited is only federal law. Many states in the USA banned CGI depictions of CSAM as a result of cases like that, so computer-generated imagery, and child sex dolls are not permitted across a large section of the country, for better or worse. I have no opinion on it as I don't know if access to items such as these which involve no real children make the majority of those interested more or less likely to physically offend. I am sure for some it mitigates their desires, and for others it accentuates them. I am not a psychologist.

tennisflyi 3y ago

CSAM AI articles have just popped up.

buckleberry12 3y ago

Framed as crime scene evidence, it is kind of strange that simply possessing it, for any reason, is a serious crime worth decades in prison. The pedophiles are voluntarily taking pictures and videos of themselves committing crimes and sharing it on the internet. I am sure that if internet sleuths were allowed to investigate such material, like law enforcement is, many, many more child abusers would ultimately get caught. Distributing it should obviously still be illegal, but banning simple possession doesn't stop traffickers (obviously) and eliminates an enormous free workforce of amateur sleuths who I am sure would seriously help the problem. They have helped solved many cold case murders that police never could. It's kind of creepy in a way when you think about it. No other crime scene evidence is guarded in that way. Is it illegal to possess photos/videos of someone getting stabbed, shot, beheaded, etc? Surely there are people who derive sexual pleasure from that material too, yet it proliferates and no one really cares. It's almost as if the powers that be REALLY don't want the general public to know who's behind some of this stuff. We already know very rich and powerful people are routinely involved in child sex rings... And the AI image generation stuff makes it even more dangerous and ridiculous. So we're approaching a time when someone can just generate some images locally with stable diffusion or whatever of what looks like CSAM (but no actual children involved), get it into your possession (either remotely or just dropping an SD card in your house somewhere you don't see) and now you are liable for decades in prison...hopefully you don't have any enemies.

qingcharles 3y ago
I had a competitor to my TV torrent site who would call PayPal on a monthly basis and claim our site was selling CSAM. PayPal would be forced to immediately block the account and do a thorough investigation to exonerate us (though weirdly they didn't care about the piracy). It is a fantastic ruse to destroy someone's legitimate business though as the payment providers cannot ignore the complaint, even if it is made repeatedly and regularly and is clearly bogus.
JPws_Prntr_Fngr 3y ago
Very good point I haven't ever seen posed before. And here's another angle: the unconditional felony possession thing is extremely convenient if you're looking to frame someone. Whether it's drugs, CP, or some other material.