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Apple is not to be trusted in terms of privacy. Nobody knows what their software is actually doing. It's all closed source. Their focus on privacy in their adve

Apple is not to be trusted in terms of privacy. Nobody knows what their software is actually doing. It's all closed source. Their focus on privacy in their advertisements does not mean that their software actually protects users' privacy.

themitigating 3y ago
What does that have to do with their opposition to this proposal?
- hackernewds 3y ago
  That they build a huge dam to block natural waterflow, and sell urine to the masses.
  - jkubicek 3y ago
    I think you need to unpack this metaphor a bit more, I can't see what point you're trying to make.
photonerd 3y ago
Proof appears to be in the pudding: the feds & law enforcement routinely complain that they can’t access Apple users stuff. Hell, they sue over it. So it seems to work oreeeeetty well
- smoldesu 3y ago
  Of course, it depends where you live. If you are an Apple customer of the Chinese mainland, your iCloud data just gets uploaded to government servers from the start. The Chinese "feds & law enforcement" just gets carte-blanche access to all uploaded user data. So what stops them from doing the same thing where you live? If you're relying on absolute honesty from your jurisdiction, you're bound to be disappointed the next time a Snowden type hits the news.
  - judge2020 3y ago
    The situation in China is not a secret. Apple's entire existence is/was beholden to factories and resources in China. It was an ultimatum of "put our users' data in our servers or have your entire business crippled", which might have also been illegal to do in the U.S. since it would've violated shareholder trust to destroy possibly years of efficiency and supply chain performance over user privacy in China (only to have your products banned in China anyways) while they try to move supply chains. In the U.S., these types of bills are the ones aiming to mimic China's stranglehold over tech companies that China has. China has the manufacturing chops, but the US still has a large and wealthy consumer market and is considered a fairly politically stable location to run your business out of (thanks to military spending). Both the executive and legislative branches would love to spy on their citizens more to make their jobs easier and gain more power over the everyday lives of citizens. So while the US has the potential to follow in China's footsteps, we still have the opportunity to fight against these proposed laws.
    - smoldesu 3y ago
      > It was an ultimatum of "put our users' data in our servers or have your entire business crippled", And the rest of FAANG chose option B, because violating user trust in the way China wanted was absolutely insane. The only company forced into kissing the boot was Apple. > which might have also been illegal to do in the U.S. since it would've violated shareholder trust to destroy possibly years of efficiency Yeah, I don't think any jury would indict Apple for leaving China. It was a controversial decision when they decided to bend the knee, and shareholders are breathing a sigh of relief with Apple's iPhone assembly experiments in other countries. Shareholders want to stay in China for the cheap labor - that's it. Once they can exploit workers with similar efficiency elsewhere, China will be unnecessary. > So while the US has the potential to follow in China's footsteps The way I see things, China is following in the US' footsteps. They know everything we manufacture is backdoored, so they have their own companies with their own government backdoors. They make huge pushes to remove American systems from their infrastructure like we do with them, and treat every American-made piece of technology as if it was a direct line to Langley. They subjugate services that operate in the mainland, or ban them entirely. Mimicking China's stranglehold over tech companies would just resemble closing the loop of CIA employees who are on-call at FAANG. Their entire strategy here is embarrassingly simple, accelerated by authoritarianism and abetted by capitalist interests. The veneer of "political stability" is enough to make me laugh, even as an apologist for the American government.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
jkubicek 3y ago
Sure, we can't audit their software, but we can't audit anyone else's software either, so I'm not sure how that's a ding against Apple specifically? Also, we need to consider that Apple widely advertises their devotion to privacy, has done nothing to indicate they aren't being honest, doesn't stand to gain anything by lying to us, and would do untold damage to their brand if they were caught lying.

themitigating 3y ago

What does that have to do with their opposition to this proposal?

hackernewds 3y ago
That they build a huge dam to block natural waterflow, and sell urine to the masses.
- jkubicek 3y ago
  I think you need to unpack this metaphor a bit more, I can't see what point you're trying to make.

photonerd 3y ago

Proof appears to be in the pudding: the feds & law enforcement routinely complain that they can’t access Apple users stuff. Hell, they sue over it. So it seems to work oreeeeetty well

smoldesu 3y ago
Of course, it depends where you live. If you are an Apple customer of the Chinese mainland, your iCloud data just gets uploaded to government servers from the start. The Chinese "feds & law enforcement" just gets carte-blanche access to all uploaded user data. So what stops them from doing the same thing where you live? If you're relying on absolute honesty from your jurisdiction, you're bound to be disappointed the next time a Snowden type hits the news.
- judge2020 3y ago
  The situation in China is not a secret. Apple's entire existence is/was beholden to factories and resources in China. It was an ultimatum of "put our users' data in our servers or have your entire business crippled", which might have also been illegal to do in the U.S. since it would've violated shareholder trust to destroy possibly years of efficiency and supply chain performance over user privacy in China (only to have your products banned in China anyways) while they try to move supply chains. In the U.S., these types of bills are the ones aiming to mimic China's stranglehold over tech companies that China has. China has the manufacturing chops, but the US still has a large and wealthy consumer market and is considered a fairly politically stable location to run your business out of (thanks to military spending). Both the executive and legislative branches would love to spy on their citizens more to make their jobs easier and gain more power over the everyday lives of citizens. So while the US has the potential to follow in China's footsteps, we still have the opportunity to fight against these proposed laws.
  - smoldesu 3y ago
    > It was an ultimatum of "put our users' data in our servers or have your entire business crippled", And the rest of FAANG chose option B, because violating user trust in the way China wanted was absolutely insane. The only company forced into kissing the boot was Apple. > which might have also been illegal to do in the U.S. since it would've violated shareholder trust to destroy possibly years of efficiency Yeah, I don't think any jury would indict Apple for leaving China. It was a controversial decision when they decided to bend the knee, and shareholders are breathing a sigh of relief with Apple's iPhone assembly experiments in other countries. Shareholders want to stay in China for the cheap labor - that's it. Once they can exploit workers with similar efficiency elsewhere, China will be unnecessary. > So while the US has the potential to follow in China's footsteps The way I see things, China is following in the US' footsteps. They know everything we manufacture is backdoored, so they have their own companies with their own government backdoors. They make huge pushes to remove American systems from their infrastructure like we do with them, and treat every American-made piece of technology as if it was a direct line to Langley. They subjugate services that operate in the mainland, or ban them entirely. Mimicking China's stranglehold over tech companies would just resemble closing the loop of CIA employees who are on-call at FAANG. Their entire strategy here is embarrassingly simple, accelerated by authoritarianism and abetted by capitalist interests. The veneer of "political stability" is enough to make me laugh, even as an apologist for the American government.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

jkubicek 3y ago

Sure, we can't audit their software, but we can't audit anyone else's software either, so I'm not sure how that's a ding against Apple specifically? Also, we need to consider that Apple widely advertises their devotion to privacy, has done nothing to indicate they aren't being honest, doesn't stand to gain anything by lying to us, and would do untold damage to their brand if they were caught lying.