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It is here, right now. They are actively collecting this data as using it extra judicially to convict people of crimes. You feel fine about all this because it

It is here, right now. They are actively collecting this data as using it extra judicially to convict people of crimes. You feel fine about all this because it does not affect you. Yet. And the person who you are responding to is encrypting everything, which google, facebook ,et all are not doing.

EA-3167 3y ago
I'd love some examples of these "extra judicial" convictions, and as I said I'm tired of the "yet" argument. I've been hearing this my whole life, as though the government never monitored pre-internet communications. And as far as active collection, how does that compare to people happily and eagerly sharing every aspect of their lives on FB?
gretch 3y ago
Disclosure: work in big tech. > It is here, right now. You should know that this type of argument is likely to hurt your own position when delivered to a moderate middle. You're basically telling people to ignore what they see and hear around them, and to believe that not only is the end coming - it has already come and we are living in a dystopia. The reality I see when I go outside is that me and my neighbors and my community is doing fine. Is there problems? Sure there are, as there always was and always will be. But no my friend, we are not at the bottom of a slippery slope. From what I see there's way more problematic extra-judicial action that has zero to do with big tech - cops just shooting people in the streets over minor infractions... that's where I spend my activist hours.
- giraffe_lady 3y ago
  These things are straightforwardly related though. It is very common among people who organized or were very active in summer 2020 anti-police violence protests to have caught charges in the last few years for completely unrelated things. Often very "routine" type harassment, fraud, low level drug stuff that would normally not ever be investigated without getting busted or reported. Of course that's all benign coincidence I'm sure I'm just being paranoid. And of course your neighbors and community are doing fine, I'm sure mine are just more criminal. Nothing to worry about keep working on your thing.
  - gretch 3y ago
    > . It is very common among people who organized or were very active in summer 2020 anti-police violence protests to have caught charges in the last few years for completely unrelated things. I participated in these protests, as did many of my friends and community. Nothing happened to them such as you describe. So no, I don't believe you.
    - giraffe_lady 3y ago
      Oh, well ok then.
    - wahnfrieden 3y ago
      you can just look at the news coming out of atlanta right now.
    - uoaei 3y ago
      Wondering what makes you think your belief, experience, or recounting of either (truthful or otherwise) would be credible enough to be worth enunciating. I could just as easily say I had a bunch of friends who were targeted. I could tell you I spent time at a black site held by feds who wouldn't identify themselves or their agency. So obviously anecdotes here in this context carry no value. What is more believable and trustworthy is the investigative reporting that clearly states that what giraffe_lady et al. have been saying is closer to the truth than your tiny (and statistically probably white and/or middle-to-upper class, considering you have an account here -- obviously not a threat to the status quo and so quite low on the list of targets for state-sanctioned kidnapping) bubble's experience, faithfully represented or otherwise. I guess what I'm saying is basically what ends up being the appropriate response to the problem always on this site: you don't know the extent of what you don't know, so more than a little humility is warranted here, particularly in the face of real reporting by real journalists.
      - EA-3167 3y ago
        That's a long way to argue against anecdote in favor of evidence, but the fact is that as you can see from this whole thread... people are short on evidence. People are offering anecdotes, conspiracy theories, and the old "isn't it obvious" line. Anecdote is sufficient to dismiss that.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
  I couldn't agree more. The techno dystopia talk seems more like techie ego to me. Closed source software, benign privacy intrusions, etc. are not the problems of the century and most people don't care not because they are ignorant but because these issues are smaller than we think.
- upsidesinclude 3y ago
  Weird. The thing you claim to be an activist for happens hardly ever, comparing the number of engagements citizens have with police. The violation of your rights described on the slippery slope here is happening to everyone all the time. You aren't concerned because it has not impacted you in a way that you perceive. It has impacted you, but you fail to draw the connection. Government and police agencies breaking the law and ignoring the constitution is bad for America. The fact they hide this and other techniques is further evidence.
deelowe 3y ago
Via subpoena. What is the issue again?

EA-3167 3y ago

I'd love some examples of these "extra judicial" convictions, and as I said I'm tired of the "yet" argument. I've been hearing this my whole life, as though the government never monitored pre-internet communications. And as far as active collection, how does that compare to people happily and eagerly sharing every aspect of their lives on FB?

gretch 3y ago

Disclosure: work in big tech. > It is here, right now. You should know that this type of argument is likely to hurt your own position when delivered to a moderate middle. You're basically telling people to ignore what they see and hear around them, and to believe that not only is the end coming - it has already come and we are living in a dystopia. The reality I see when I go outside is that me and my neighbors and my community is doing fine. Is there problems? Sure there are, as there always was and always will be. But no my friend, we are not at the bottom of a slippery slope. From what I see there's way more problematic extra-judicial action that has zero to do with big tech - cops just shooting people in the streets over minor infractions... that's where I spend my activist hours.

giraffe_lady 3y ago
These things are straightforwardly related though. It is very common among people who organized or were very active in summer 2020 anti-police violence protests to have caught charges in the last few years for completely unrelated things. Often very "routine" type harassment, fraud, low level drug stuff that would normally not ever be investigated without getting busted or reported. Of course that's all benign coincidence I'm sure I'm just being paranoid. And of course your neighbors and community are doing fine, I'm sure mine are just more criminal. Nothing to worry about keep working on your thing.
- gretch 3y ago
  > . It is very common among people who organized or were very active in summer 2020 anti-police violence protests to have caught charges in the last few years for completely unrelated things. I participated in these protests, as did many of my friends and community. Nothing happened to them such as you describe. So no, I don't believe you.
  - giraffe_lady 3y ago
    Oh, well ok then.
  - wahnfrieden 3y ago
    you can just look at the news coming out of atlanta right now.
  - uoaei 3y ago
    Wondering what makes you think your belief, experience, or recounting of either (truthful or otherwise) would be credible enough to be worth enunciating. I could just as easily say I had a bunch of friends who were targeted. I could tell you I spent time at a black site held by feds who wouldn't identify themselves or their agency. So obviously anecdotes here in this context carry no value. What is more believable and trustworthy is the investigative reporting that clearly states that what giraffe_lady et al. have been saying is closer to the truth than your tiny (and statistically probably white and/or middle-to-upper class, considering you have an account here -- obviously not a threat to the status quo and so quite low on the list of targets for state-sanctioned kidnapping) bubble's experience, faithfully represented or otherwise. I guess what I'm saying is basically what ends up being the appropriate response to the problem always on this site: you don't know the extent of what you don't know, so more than a little humility is warranted here, particularly in the face of real reporting by real journalists.
    - EA-3167 3y ago
      That's a long way to argue against anecdote in favor of evidence, but the fact is that as you can see from this whole thread... people are short on evidence. People are offering anecdotes, conspiracy theories, and the old "isn't it obvious" line. Anecdote is sufficient to dismiss that.
2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
I couldn't agree more. The techno dystopia talk seems more like techie ego to me. Closed source software, benign privacy intrusions, etc. are not the problems of the century and most people don't care not because they are ignorant but because these issues are smaller than we think.
upsidesinclude 3y ago
Weird. The thing you claim to be an activist for happens hardly ever, comparing the number of engagements citizens have with police. The violation of your rights described on the slippery slope here is happening to everyone all the time. You aren't concerned because it has not impacted you in a way that you perceive. It has impacted you, but you fail to draw the connection. Government and police agencies breaking the law and ignoring the constitution is bad for America. The fact they hide this and other techniques is further evidence.

deelowe 3y ago

Via subpoena. What is the issue again?