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I struggle with this a lot @ helping people with tech It seems like most of the industry is pushing bits around or trying to make specific shareholders rich at

I struggle with this a lot @ helping people with tech It seems like most of the industry is pushing bits around or trying to make specific shareholders rich at the cost of everyone else. Rambling, but it you get any good insights I'm definitely interested in hearing them

schemescape 3y ago
I don’t really have any insight, but I found this comment (and its parent) helpful as a starting point: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36508063 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36508063 It seems so obvious, but it’s also easy to lose sight of, especially when technology is so interesting!
Tade0 3y ago
> It seems like most of the industry is pushing bits around or trying to make specific shareholders rich at the cost of everyone else. My co-worker from a decade ago named it "shovelling virtual gravel" and I think this expression really catches the spirit of it.
- spencerflem 3y ago
  i like that a lot
- jareklupinski 3y ago
  beats pulling the real stuff https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRh0QiXyZSk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRh0QiXyZSk Tennessee Ernie Ford - Sixteen Tons
golergka 3y ago
> make specific shareholders rich at the cost of everyone else I haven't worked in a single company that have succeeded in making their owners rich without giving the clients what they want. Have you? The only entities I know that do that are organised crime and governments.
- Firmwarrior 3y ago
  Comcast Well, that's kind of a mix of both categories, to be fair
- cbau 3y ago
  A lot of companies directly go against their users to enrich the owners, see Reddit right now. Just the rational move by companies that have established monopolies/oligopolies. Also companies that exploit negative externalities.
- spencerflem 3y ago
  Some examples: - Everything Microsoft has been doing to windows: adding ads, shuffling the UI around, resetting the defaults every update - see also: reddit, facebook, everything else in it's "enshitification" phase - Anything involving ads is (imo) polluting the world - Things that are literally polluting the world (usually not tech, but sometimes) do on net these companies do more good for the world than bad? maybe, but certainly most of the work going into them seems to be in "capturing value" which is of no use to me. Most of the proprietary software I've used has slowly gotten worse over time.
  - golergka 3y ago
    You're not providing arguments for the thesis that their products are bad. You're providing arguments for the thesis that their products have gone worse than they were before. However, with all the ads and stuff that we don't like they still provide a lot of value for their users. Personally, I no longer use Windows, reddit or Facebook for these exact reasons — to me, these products no longer provide value. But I don't pretend that my tastes are shared by everybody else: a lot of people actually don't care about ads, they don't care about the fact that reddit is closing the API and they like the shitty memes that facebook is putting in their feeds.
    - spencerflem 3y ago
      My thesis is that as a software engineer, your job is often to take an existing product and make it worse. I think that's a little sad. Not saying anything else.

schemescape 3y ago

I don’t really have any insight, but I found this comment (and its parent) helpful as a starting point: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36508063 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36508063 It seems so obvious, but it’s also easy to lose sight of, especially when technology is so interesting!

Tade0 3y ago

> It seems like most of the industry is pushing bits around or trying to make specific shareholders rich at the cost of everyone else. My co-worker from a decade ago named it "shovelling virtual gravel" and I think this expression really catches the spirit of it.

spencerflem 3y ago
i like that a lot
jareklupinski 3y ago
beats pulling the real stuff https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRh0QiXyZSk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRh0QiXyZSk Tennessee Ernie Ford - Sixteen Tons

golergka 3y ago

> make specific shareholders rich at the cost of everyone else I haven't worked in a single company that have succeeded in making their owners rich without giving the clients what they want. Have you? The only entities I know that do that are organised crime and governments.

Firmwarrior 3y ago
Comcast Well, that's kind of a mix of both categories, to be fair
cbau 3y ago
A lot of companies directly go against their users to enrich the owners, see Reddit right now. Just the rational move by companies that have established monopolies/oligopolies. Also companies that exploit negative externalities.
spencerflem 3y ago
Some examples: - Everything Microsoft has been doing to windows: adding ads, shuffling the UI around, resetting the defaults every update - see also: reddit, facebook, everything else in it's "enshitification" phase - Anything involving ads is (imo) polluting the world - Things that are literally polluting the world (usually not tech, but sometimes) do on net these companies do more good for the world than bad? maybe, but certainly most of the work going into them seems to be in "capturing value" which is of no use to me. Most of the proprietary software I've used has slowly gotten worse over time.
- golergka 3y ago
  You're not providing arguments for the thesis that their products are bad. You're providing arguments for the thesis that their products have gone worse than they were before. However, with all the ads and stuff that we don't like they still provide a lot of value for their users. Personally, I no longer use Windows, reddit or Facebook for these exact reasons — to me, these products no longer provide value. But I don't pretend that my tastes are shared by everybody else: a lot of people actually don't care about ads, they don't care about the fact that reddit is closing the API and they like the shitty memes that facebook is putting in their feeds.
  - spencerflem 3y ago
    My thesis is that as a software engineer, your job is often to take an existing product and make it worse. I think that's a little sad. Not saying anything else.