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These days H1B is strictly a wage suppression tool and filled with low skill workers from India based degree mills and body shops. Actual skilled workers are c

These days H1B is strictly a wage suppression tool and filled with low skill workers from India based degree mills and body shops. Actual skilled workers are coming in on L-1 or O-1 visas.

the_svd_doctor 3y ago
If you’re already in the US and eventually want a GC (typical Us graduate), both of those are not very good option and H1-B is better bc of its dual intent.
grimgoldgo 3y ago
That is patently false. Plenty of skilled engineers come from around the world on H1B visas.
- phone8675309 3y ago
  The parent post doesn't dispute that - it's just adding that in addition to the plenty of skilled engineers part there are also a bunch of low skill workers from degree mills coming as well.
  - ThrowawayR2 3y ago
    Even if that was true, that would be absolutely fine. Getting one Jensen Huang, Satya Nadella, Lisa Su, Sundar Pichal, etc. would make absorbing 10,000 or even more low/mediocre skilled workers along with them worthwhile. The technological and economic benefits makes it a no brainer.
    - shiftpgdn 3y ago
      Jensen Huang emigrated at the age of 4, Lisa Su at the age of 3, Satya and Sundar both came over as part of college visa programs. I don't see what that has to do with mass importation of low skill workers to hammer down high middle class wages in the US?
      - renewiltord 3y ago
        Can you describe what happens after one graduates after coming here on a "college visa program"?
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - muzaffarpur 3y ago
        There are hundreds of thousands folks, who came here for college, are still on h1b. They have been in this limbo for 10+ years.
      - gourabmi 3y ago
        They might have moved here as part of college visa programs but they needed H1B to work and build their skill set. The college visa (F1/ J1) does not come with a work authorization beyond 3 years.
        slt2021 3y ago
        3 years is a recent thing (from 2008), for Sundar itis likely was 1 year OPT and then H-1B
    - slt2021 3y ago
      Elon Musk himself was H-1B at some point. without H-1B america would not have Elon (for better or worse)
- Alupis 3y ago
  It's not as false as some might want to believe. The issues are complex - but one of the side affects are indeed artificial suppression of wages for citizens. We have software titans bursting at the seam with imported labor - yet our domestic universities are also churning out more CS graduates than ever before. Some of these graduates are indeed from foreign countries - but not all. It's very hard to believe companies need to import labor for commoditized software engineering positions when there are plenty of available workers already here. We should be importing top-tier talent - the types of folks that are working in complex fields, inventing new fields, developing things that haven't been done before, etc. We should not be importing basic CS graduates and filling basic SE jobs. H1B's are often cheaper to hire, and do not enjoy the same mobility freedoms a citizen does. In some ways, they are beholden to their sponsor company, and whatever wages that company offers - which may not necessarily be market wages.
  - rhaway84773 3y ago
    Clearly H1Bs are suppressing wages as proven by the fact that software engineers have seen wages rise more than any other job profile in the country for over the past decade. Oh wait.
    - Alupis 3y ago
      Imagine where those wages would be without a glut of H1B's...
      - mannerheim 3y ago
        Just as much reason to believe it would be lower than higher. There aren't a fixed number of jobs. A talented engineer who comes to America can go on to start up his own company (and there are many examples of this occurring), creating many more high-paying jobs for other engineers. A company that fails because they can't hire enough engineers puts the engineers they do have employed out of work. I don't claim that H1Bs have the effect of increasing pay, but rather that their effect on pay is non-obvious, and any assertion that they do depress wages should be backed up by evidence.
NovemberWhiskey 3y ago
The H-1B situation is also a problem for people who come from overseas to study for their degrees in the U.S. They get F-1 OPT, and join US companies that then cannot retain them because of the over-subscription of the H-1B. It's also bogus to say that H-1B is more problematic than L-1B for body-shopping: all the well organized body-shops do massive amount of intra-company transfers.
bubbleRefuge 3y ago
Agree. The fix is to allow them to be "free agents" like every other participant in the economy. Allow markets to determine their value.
- JustLurking2022 3y ago
  In theory yes but if the premise for why we allow disproportionately large immigration from certain countries is that we're bringing in unique skills, and we decide that premise is flawed, then it would also be cause to reevaluate the immigration policy.
slt2021 3y ago
this is demonstrably false, if you ever bothered to look at the actual LCA filings from DOL. btw these indian body shops are already abusing O-1 and L-1 visas en masse as well, so your latter statement is also not 100% true
- JustLurking2022 3y ago
  Fixing one loophole is not mutually exclusive with fixing the rest...
  - slt2021 3y ago
    I am for fixing loopholes, instead of getting rid of the entirety of H-1B program as some people advocate here.

These days H1B is strictly a wage suppression tool and filled with low skill workers from India based degree mills and body shops. Actual skilled workers are coming in on L-1 or O-1 visas.

the_svd_doctor 3y ago

If you’re already in the US and eventually want a GC (typical Us graduate), both of those are not very good option and H1-B is better bc of its dual intent.

grimgoldgo 3y ago

That is patently false. Plenty of skilled engineers come from around the world on H1B visas.

phone8675309 3y ago
The parent post doesn't dispute that - it's just adding that in addition to the plenty of skilled engineers part there are also a bunch of low skill workers from degree mills coming as well.
- ThrowawayR2 3y ago
  Even if that was true, that would be absolutely fine. Getting one Jensen Huang, Satya Nadella, Lisa Su, Sundar Pichal, etc. would make absorbing 10,000 or even more low/mediocre skilled workers along with them worthwhile. The technological and economic benefits makes it a no brainer.
  - shiftpgdn 3y ago
    Jensen Huang emigrated at the age of 4, Lisa Su at the age of 3, Satya and Sundar both came over as part of college visa programs. I don't see what that has to do with mass importation of low skill workers to hammer down high middle class wages in the US?
    - renewiltord 3y ago
      Can you describe what happens after one graduates after coming here on a "college visa program"?
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - muzaffarpur 3y ago
      There are hundreds of thousands folks, who came here for college, are still on h1b. They have been in this limbo for 10+ years.
    - gourabmi 3y ago
      They might have moved here as part of college visa programs but they needed H1B to work and build their skill set. The college visa (F1/ J1) does not come with a work authorization beyond 3 years.
      - slt2021 3y ago
        3 years is a recent thing (from 2008), for Sundar itis likely was 1 year OPT and then H-1B
  - slt2021 3y ago
    Elon Musk himself was H-1B at some point. without H-1B america would not have Elon (for better or worse)
Alupis 3y ago
It's not as false as some might want to believe. The issues are complex - but one of the side affects are indeed artificial suppression of wages for citizens. We have software titans bursting at the seam with imported labor - yet our domestic universities are also churning out more CS graduates than ever before. Some of these graduates are indeed from foreign countries - but not all. It's very hard to believe companies need to import labor for commoditized software engineering positions when there are plenty of available workers already here. We should be importing top-tier talent - the types of folks that are working in complex fields, inventing new fields, developing things that haven't been done before, etc. We should not be importing basic CS graduates and filling basic SE jobs. H1B's are often cheaper to hire, and do not enjoy the same mobility freedoms a citizen does. In some ways, they are beholden to their sponsor company, and whatever wages that company offers - which may not necessarily be market wages.
- rhaway84773 3y ago
  Clearly H1Bs are suppressing wages as proven by the fact that software engineers have seen wages rise more than any other job profile in the country for over the past decade. Oh wait.
  - Alupis 3y ago
    Imagine where those wages would be without a glut of H1B's...
    - mannerheim 3y ago
      Just as much reason to believe it would be lower than higher. There aren't a fixed number of jobs. A talented engineer who comes to America can go on to start up his own company (and there are many examples of this occurring), creating many more high-paying jobs for other engineers. A company that fails because they can't hire enough engineers puts the engineers they do have employed out of work. I don't claim that H1Bs have the effect of increasing pay, but rather that their effect on pay is non-obvious, and any assertion that they do depress wages should be backed up by evidence.

NovemberWhiskey 3y ago

The H-1B situation is also a problem for people who come from overseas to study for their degrees in the U.S. They get F-1 OPT, and join US companies that then cannot retain them because of the over-subscription of the H-1B. It's also bogus to say that H-1B is more problematic than L-1B for body-shopping: all the well organized body-shops do massive amount of intra-company transfers.

bubbleRefuge 3y ago

Agree. The fix is to allow them to be "free agents" like every other participant in the economy. Allow markets to determine their value.

JustLurking2022 3y ago
In theory yes but if the premise for why we allow disproportionately large immigration from certain countries is that we're bringing in unique skills, and we decide that premise is flawed, then it would also be cause to reevaluate the immigration policy.

slt2021 3y ago

this is demonstrably false, if you ever bothered to look at the actual LCA filings from DOL. btw these indian body shops are already abusing O-1 and L-1 visas en masse as well, so your latter statement is also not 100% true

JustLurking2022 3y ago
Fixing one loophole is not mutually exclusive with fixing the rest...
- slt2021 3y ago
  I am for fixing loopholes, instead of getting rid of the entirety of H-1B program as some people advocate here.