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Yeah and IIRC some Tesla commercials are saying that there’s a person behind the wheel "only for legal reasons", which tells the target audience that it can ful

Yeah and IIRC some Tesla commercials are saying that there’s a person behind the wheel "only for legal reasons", which tells the target audience that it can fully drive itself, if it was not for these pesky regulations. And then, when they say "you must keep your hands on the wheel and your eyes on the road", people tend to understand that they risk a ticket because "legal reasons", but that otherwise it’s perfectly safe to ignore these requirements. I think they mislead people on purpose, leveraging this ambiguous claim of "only for legal reasons", together with the misleading way they call it Auto Pilot, and now even Full Self Driving. How do they get away with it? How comes they don’t get sued?

martin8412 3y ago
https://www.tesla.com/videos/autopilot-self-driving-hardware-neighborhood-long https://www.tesla.com/videos/autopilot-self-driving-hardware...
- d_tr 3y ago
  What is this video supposed to be demonstrating?
  - Veserv 3y ago
    It shows the current head of Autopilot Software, Ashok Elluswamy, and Elon Musk faking Tesla’s self driving demo as admitted to in Ahsok Elluswamy’s deposition on Page 70: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23574198-elluswamy-deposition-transcript https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23574198-elluswamy-d... During filming the car crashed at least once. They fully mapped the route ahead of time and ran the route multiple times until it did not crash or require intervention.
    - d_tr 3y ago
      My question was actually a bit stupid. I wanted to clarify what the parent implied by posting that link, but I guess it was just a citation for the grandparent. Thanks for the interesting info.
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    Well right at the start in very big letters: "THE PERSON IN THE DRIVER'S SEAT IS ONLY THERE FOR LEGAL REASONS. HE IS NOT DOING ANYTHING. THE CAR IS DRIVING ITSELF." Additionally, the "driver" also does not have their hands on the wheel as required. I can imagine the dealership showing this to customers and them getting totally the wrong idea. Edit: And I didn't even know what Veserv said below. Wow... That is like 737MAX levels of misleading.
    - Veserv 3y ago
      That is unfair to Boeing. They did not know it was unsafe and deliberately lie, they were just criminally negligent in glossing over the mandatory safety testing. The video is Theranos levels of fraud.
FireBeyond 3y ago
> And then, when they say "you must keep your hands on the wheel and your eyes on the road", people tend to understand that they risk a ticket because "legal reasons", but that otherwise it’s perfectly safe to ignore these requirements. All of Tesla's messaging around this is very much this, nudge nudge, wink wink. When they initially introduced driver attention tracking, which they had to be pressured to do, they only checked every fifteen minutes. Even on the actual order form, "features depend on regulatory approval". For Summon, "have your car come to you while dealing with a fussy child" (while buried somewhere entirely different is a comment is "pay full attention to the vehicle").
sorokod 3y ago
"only for legal reasons", which tells the target audience that it can fully drive itself, if it was not for these pesky regulations. There is a delightfuly cinical alternative interpretation that is also obviously true: the legal reason is that without a human at the wheel it is Tesla who is legally responsible for any damge. Not so with a human at the wheel.

martin8412 3y ago

https://www.tesla.com/videos/autopilot-self-driving-hardware-neighborhood-long https://www.tesla.com/videos/autopilot-self-driving-hardware...

d_tr 3y ago
What is this video supposed to be demonstrating?
- Veserv 3y ago
  It shows the current head of Autopilot Software, Ashok Elluswamy, and Elon Musk faking Tesla’s self driving demo as admitted to in Ahsok Elluswamy’s deposition on Page 70: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23574198-elluswamy-deposition-transcript https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23574198-elluswamy-d... During filming the car crashed at least once. They fully mapped the route ahead of time and ran the route multiple times until it did not crash or require intervention.
  - d_tr 3y ago
    My question was actually a bit stupid. I wanted to clarify what the parent implied by posting that link, but I guess it was just a citation for the grandparent. Thanks for the interesting info.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  Well right at the start in very big letters: "THE PERSON IN THE DRIVER'S SEAT IS ONLY THERE FOR LEGAL REASONS. HE IS NOT DOING ANYTHING. THE CAR IS DRIVING ITSELF." Additionally, the "driver" also does not have their hands on the wheel as required. I can imagine the dealership showing this to customers and them getting totally the wrong idea. Edit: And I didn't even know what Veserv said below. Wow... That is like 737MAX levels of misleading.
  - Veserv 3y ago
    That is unfair to Boeing. They did not know it was unsafe and deliberately lie, they were just criminally negligent in glossing over the mandatory safety testing. The video is Theranos levels of fraud.

FireBeyond 3y ago

> And then, when they say "you must keep your hands on the wheel and your eyes on the road", people tend to understand that they risk a ticket because "legal reasons", but that otherwise it’s perfectly safe to ignore these requirements. All of Tesla's messaging around this is very much this, nudge nudge, wink wink. When they initially introduced driver attention tracking, which they had to be pressured to do, they only checked every fifteen minutes. Even on the actual order form, "features depend on regulatory approval". For Summon, "have your car come to you while dealing with a fussy child" (while buried somewhere entirely different is a comment is "pay full attention to the vehicle").

sorokod 3y ago

"only for legal reasons", which tells the target audience that it can fully drive itself, if it was not for these pesky regulations. There is a delightfuly cinical alternative interpretation that is also obviously true: the legal reason is that without a human at the wheel it is Tesla who is legally responsible for any damge. Not so with a human at the wheel.