8 ms·

I understand that Teflon might be a hazard in pans but feel like it reduces the amount of burned food in contrast to steel/iron pans so much for me that I hope

by oezi 3y ago

I understand that Teflon might be a hazard in pans but feel like it reduces the amount of burned food in contrast to steel/iron pans so much for me that I hope it is a net gain. (sorry in advance for all who want to suggest iron skillets. I can't make them work in daily use.)

grimgoldgo 3y ago
If you are regularly burning food in steel or iron pans, maybe it's time to understand why? I cook in exclusively iron and steel cookware and I cannot remember the last time something got burned (excepting when I deliberately charred something.)
- hirundo 3y ago
  Please don't take your skill in this for granted. It's a gift. I've been using cast iron pans sporadically for four decades, following all of the common advice, and failing magnificently every time. I still use one occasionally to put a crust on a steak ... and then use a small piece of chainmail[1] to defeat the klingons. It's not that I don't believe you. It just doesn't work that way in my pan on my stove with my food at my skill level, at all. I gave up and buy nonstick pans and replace them every other year or so. [1] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0087UYR1S https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0087UYR1S
  - abathur 3y ago
    I don't cook enough (and never steak) for you to assign me much weight, but FWIW I've had a (lighter, spun) cast iron skillet for 8ish years. I followed a seasoning procedure available online that involves (IIRC) 3 rounds of applying thin coats of flaxseed oil and leaving it in an oven at a fairly high temp. This process went fine, but I always had to baby the pan (had to be very careful cleaning it with said chainmail, very careful with what/how I cooked in it) and had to re-do the initial seasoning several times when it got too troublesome. This process would leave the pan at a dark brown, and for a while I blamed this on not removing rust well enough before seasoning or not babying it well enough for it to build up to a ~normal black coat. At some point during the early pandemic I tired of this. I decided to do something similar on the stovetop where I could observe/iterate better. Apply a coat, wait for it to stop smoking, and repeat until it was black. (plus a few for good luck; I didn't keep track; this took maybe dozens of rounds?) I've had a much better time since then. The most ~babying I've done is applying a few fresh coats if I don't use it for a while or water doesn't bead when I rinse it.
    - sgtnoodle 3y ago
      Yeah, when my cast iron skillet starts to act up I'll just lightly scrub it with dish soap and a brillo pad, dry it, then add a very light coating of oil and heat it up on the stove until it smokes. You want some ventilation of course. Then, it's restored to easy fried egg condition.
      - angelbar 3y ago
        No oven needed... only some ventilation in kitchen if you cant take it...
    - grimgoldgo 3y ago
      Consider a different oil. Flax makes a very pretty but very brittle seasoning. Canola works great IME.
  - red-iron-pine 3y ago
    Same. it's an art form sometimes, and i've cooked the same dish and had it come out great... and then the next time get charred like a mofo. I suspect it has to do with electric vs gas and being able to get and maintain a stable temp with gas. But that could just be a poor craftsman blaming his tools.
  - earthling8118 3y ago
    I would probably give up on cooking if I had to buy a new set of pans every year. That sounds entirely ridiculous. It's seriously not some special gift to be able to cook on a carbon steel, stainless steel, or cast iron pan. I've even trained people who have never cooked before in a single cooking session. Were they perfect right away? Nope. But it isn't that difficult and learned quickly after a few solo attempts
    - hirundo 3y ago
      I cook 99 out of 100 of my meals, and 9 out of 10 meals I cook in a small counter-top air-fryer. The whole gadget costs less than a good pan. That 10th meal is probably eggs in a non-stick pan, so that pan lasts years longer now. I bought a nice new range right before I discovered the air-fryer, and it now functions mostly as a device for holding up the air-fryer.
    - asoneth 3y ago
      I've taught people to juggle or even (barely) ride a unicycle after a lesson or two. That doesn't mean those aren't difficult skills to acquire. Plus, many people who are learning do not have the privilege of an experienced teacher. Relying on instructions, videos, and trial & error takes more time and energy for most people. I agree with you that it's worth the effort though.
- oezi 3y ago
  I guess that it is due to the heat source (ceran cook top) and being used to using too little oil (with a teflon pan I use less than a teaspoon in most cases).
- asoneth 3y ago
  I have been learning how to season, cook with, and clean cast iron. As someone who did not grow up using it it’s definitely not intuitive. The other challenge is that I either have to lock it away or teach everyone else in the household how to care for it. At various points in my life I’ve had coatings ruined by roommates, partners, guests, and housekeepers who did things that seemed perfectly sensible like letting it soak in soapy water. It's similar to how my partner has a stainless steel pan that I avoid using because I have not had the bandwidth to internalize the right ratio of heat, time, and oil to cook things on it without burning/sticking, whereas they have no issue with it. It's a good reminder not to take internalized skill for granted.
  - yulker 3y ago
    Soapy water won't break down the molecularly bonded fat and iron on your cast iron. If you mistake leftover grease for seasoning, then sure, soapy water will get rid of it. The trick to not sticking on steel pan is just preheating it properly. A drop of water should dance on a properly heated steel pan and things won't stick. Just let it get hot enough.
    - asoneth 3y ago
      > Soapy water won't break down the molecularly bonded fat and iron on your cast iron. In that case I'm not sure what the exact mechanism was. But I know that after others have used/cleaned a seemingly well-seasoned pan I've had to deal with chips, flakes, and/or rust and had to go back through the whole annoying seasoning process. And of course it's entirely possible that despite carefully following instructions that I've done the seasoning wrong -- chemistry is the only class I ever flunked. > A drop of water should dance on a properly heated steel pan and things won't stick. My partner made a similar recommendation. It sounds trivially easy but for whatever reason I have not managed to make it work. Given that cast iron (generally) works fine for me I've had minimal motivation to learn the idiosyncrasies of another material, though I would like to give it another shot at some point.
      - deanCommie 3y ago
rngname22 3y ago
This is a bit like saying asbestos may be a hazard in walls but I just can't seem to get the knack for not lighting my house on fire :( I say that partially as a joke but also it does sort of sound a bit absurd, in the sense that your cooking techniques are just sort of wrong if you are repeatedly burning food to your non-non-stick pan. You need an oil or fat on your pan to provide a buffer or to bathe the food in liquid.
- oezi 3y ago
  I guess this is the main reason. I am not used to use a lot of fat while preparing food. Again this might be a balancing act of the negative effects of teflon consumption and consuming too much fat via oil.
- deanCommie 3y ago
  You just perfectly illustrated why people keep disagreeing about this. You can cook a lot of things on a "non stick" telfon pan without an oil or fat. You can cook far fewer things on a "non stick" cast iron without an oil or fat. But the cast iron crowd will gaslight the rest of us, and claim that we are just seasoning it wrong but otherwise it is indistinguishable and only superior. It's like manual transmission.
xeromal 3y ago
It becomes more of a fat hazard after this but if you use the proper amount of oil, you can make it impossible to burn food into your pan. lol.
- oezi 3y ago
  Certainly true. So lets expand the hazard triangle to Fat VS Teflon VS Acrylamide.
assbuttbuttass 3y ago
There are some great ceramic non-stick pans available these days.
- oezi 3y ago
  Tried one and failed miserably.
- deathanatos 3y ago
  … which are non-stick because they're coated. Now, I do think some of them are coming coated in silicone-based coatings. The consensus I get asking "are these carcinogenic?" is "probably not?" But the other problem is determining what a particular pan is coated with: I have not seen a single manufacturer label their pan with anything more informative than that it is coated in "magic science stuff".

by oezi 3y ago

grimgoldgo 3y ago

If you are regularly burning food in steel or iron pans, maybe it's time to understand why? I cook in exclusively iron and steel cookware and I cannot remember the last time something got burned (excepting when I deliberately charred something.)

hirundo 3y ago
Please don't take your skill in this for granted. It's a gift. I've been using cast iron pans sporadically for four decades, following all of the common advice, and failing magnificently every time. I still use one occasionally to put a crust on a steak ... and then use a small piece of chainmail[1] to defeat the klingons. It's not that I don't believe you. It just doesn't work that way in my pan on my stove with my food at my skill level, at all. I gave up and buy nonstick pans and replace them every other year or so. [1] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0087UYR1S https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0087UYR1S
- abathur 3y ago
  I don't cook enough (and never steak) for you to assign me much weight, but FWIW I've had a (lighter, spun) cast iron skillet for 8ish years. I followed a seasoning procedure available online that involves (IIRC) 3 rounds of applying thin coats of flaxseed oil and leaving it in an oven at a fairly high temp. This process went fine, but I always had to baby the pan (had to be very careful cleaning it with said chainmail, very careful with what/how I cooked in it) and had to re-do the initial seasoning several times when it got too troublesome. This process would leave the pan at a dark brown, and for a while I blamed this on not removing rust well enough before seasoning or not babying it well enough for it to build up to a ~normal black coat. At some point during the early pandemic I tired of this. I decided to do something similar on the stovetop where I could observe/iterate better. Apply a coat, wait for it to stop smoking, and repeat until it was black. (plus a few for good luck; I didn't keep track; this took maybe dozens of rounds?) I've had a much better time since then. The most ~babying I've done is applying a few fresh coats if I don't use it for a while or water doesn't bead when I rinse it.
  - sgtnoodle 3y ago
    Yeah, when my cast iron skillet starts to act up I'll just lightly scrub it with dish soap and a brillo pad, dry it, then add a very light coating of oil and heat it up on the stove until it smokes. You want some ventilation of course. Then, it's restored to easy fried egg condition.
    - angelbar 3y ago
      No oven needed... only some ventilation in kitchen if you cant take it...
  - grimgoldgo 3y ago
    Consider a different oil. Flax makes a very pretty but very brittle seasoning. Canola works great IME.
- red-iron-pine 3y ago
  Same. it's an art form sometimes, and i've cooked the same dish and had it come out great... and then the next time get charred like a mofo. I suspect it has to do with electric vs gas and being able to get and maintain a stable temp with gas. But that could just be a poor craftsman blaming his tools.
- earthling8118 3y ago
  I would probably give up on cooking if I had to buy a new set of pans every year. That sounds entirely ridiculous. It's seriously not some special gift to be able to cook on a carbon steel, stainless steel, or cast iron pan. I've even trained people who have never cooked before in a single cooking session. Were they perfect right away? Nope. But it isn't that difficult and learned quickly after a few solo attempts
  - hirundo 3y ago
    I cook 99 out of 100 of my meals, and 9 out of 10 meals I cook in a small counter-top air-fryer. The whole gadget costs less than a good pan. That 10th meal is probably eggs in a non-stick pan, so that pan lasts years longer now. I bought a nice new range right before I discovered the air-fryer, and it now functions mostly as a device for holding up the air-fryer.
  - asoneth 3y ago
    I've taught people to juggle or even (barely) ride a unicycle after a lesson or two. That doesn't mean those aren't difficult skills to acquire. Plus, many people who are learning do not have the privilege of an experienced teacher. Relying on instructions, videos, and trial & error takes more time and energy for most people. I agree with you that it's worth the effort though.
oezi 3y ago
I guess that it is due to the heat source (ceran cook top) and being used to using too little oil (with a teflon pan I use less than a teaspoon in most cases).
asoneth 3y ago
I have been learning how to season, cook with, and clean cast iron. As someone who did not grow up using it it’s definitely not intuitive. The other challenge is that I either have to lock it away or teach everyone else in the household how to care for it. At various points in my life I’ve had coatings ruined by roommates, partners, guests, and housekeepers who did things that seemed perfectly sensible like letting it soak in soapy water. It's similar to how my partner has a stainless steel pan that I avoid using because I have not had the bandwidth to internalize the right ratio of heat, time, and oil to cook things on it without burning/sticking, whereas they have no issue with it. It's a good reminder not to take internalized skill for granted.
- yulker 3y ago
  Soapy water won't break down the molecularly bonded fat and iron on your cast iron. If you mistake leftover grease for seasoning, then sure, soapy water will get rid of it. The trick to not sticking on steel pan is just preheating it properly. A drop of water should dance on a properly heated steel pan and things won't stick. Just let it get hot enough.
  - asoneth 3y ago
    > Soapy water won't break down the molecularly bonded fat and iron on your cast iron. In that case I'm not sure what the exact mechanism was. But I know that after others have used/cleaned a seemingly well-seasoned pan I've had to deal with chips, flakes, and/or rust and had to go back through the whole annoying seasoning process. And of course it's entirely possible that despite carefully following instructions that I've done the seasoning wrong -- chemistry is the only class I ever flunked. > A drop of water should dance on a properly heated steel pan and things won't stick. My partner made a similar recommendation. It sounds trivially easy but for whatever reason I have not managed to make it work. Given that cast iron (generally) works fine for me I've had minimal motivation to learn the idiosyncrasies of another material, though I would like to give it another shot at some point.
    - deanCommie 3y ago

rngname22 3y ago

This is a bit like saying asbestos may be a hazard in walls but I just can't seem to get the knack for not lighting my house on fire :( I say that partially as a joke but also it does sort of sound a bit absurd, in the sense that your cooking techniques are just sort of wrong if you are repeatedly burning food to your non-non-stick pan. You need an oil or fat on your pan to provide a buffer or to bathe the food in liquid.

oezi 3y ago
I guess this is the main reason. I am not used to use a lot of fat while preparing food. Again this might be a balancing act of the negative effects of teflon consumption and consuming too much fat via oil.
deanCommie 3y ago
You just perfectly illustrated why people keep disagreeing about this. You can cook a lot of things on a "non stick" telfon pan without an oil or fat. You can cook far fewer things on a "non stick" cast iron without an oil or fat. But the cast iron crowd will gaslight the rest of us, and claim that we are just seasoning it wrong but otherwise it is indistinguishable and only superior. It's like manual transmission.

xeromal 3y ago

It becomes more of a fat hazard after this but if you use the proper amount of oil, you can make it impossible to burn food into your pan. lol.

oezi 3y ago
Certainly true. So lets expand the hazard triangle to Fat VS Teflon VS Acrylamide.

assbuttbuttass 3y ago

There are some great ceramic non-stick pans available these days.

oezi 3y ago
Tried one and failed miserably.
deathanatos 3y ago
… which are non-stick because they're coated. Now, I do think some of them are coming coated in silicone-based coatings. The consensus I get asking "are these carcinogenic?" is "probably not?" But the other problem is determining what a particular pan is coated with: I have not seen a single manufacturer label their pan with anything more informative than that it is coated in "magic science stuff".