5 ms·

> Once you’ve tasted the fruits of WFH and you like the taste, you’ll never go back. Let me guess, you are in a low cost of living area (at least relative to y

> Once you’ve tasted the fruits of WFH and you like the taste, you’ll never go back. Let me guess, you are in a low cost of living area (at least relative to your income) and have a big house? I live in NYC. Residential floor space is very expensive here. My wife and I on two tech salaries can afford a fairly large place by the standards of our area, but it's definitely not large enough for 2 adults to comfortably work from home with a toddler also running around. For us, the optimal solution is hybrid with a schedule where on any given day one of us is wfh and one in the office. When both of us were forced to work from home full time, we managed, but it was suboptimal and a drag on productivity. The "fruits of WFH" turned out somewhat bitter.

Cymrukicks 3y ago
Or you could keep your jobs and move to a lower cost of living area making us of more space?
- tetromino_ 3y ago
  Irrespective of lack of space, NYC is the only place in the US where I have enjoyed living.
  - sanderjd 3y ago
    Yeah people always miss this: Job availability is not the only reason people don't all move to rural Kentucky. People like living in expensive cities! That's why so many people live there!
  - muttled 3y ago
    Not that they'd do this, but if the company offered what it was paying for office space for you as a stipend for your home office, would that change your mind? Some quick Google math suggests an average of $80/sqft/year for NYC office space and suggests 100 sqft per-person for an open-office worker which comes out to $600-700 a month. Again, cursory Google search, but it looks like that's right about the price increase to go from a 2BR to a 3BR and have a home office.
hdjjhhvvhga 3y ago
That's why I don't understand the insistence on RTO. It's clear from all discussions that people have different views on the topics. So why don't give people a choice? Those who want to work in the office should be free to do so, as should be the rest of us who sees no reasons to go back. In this scenario everybody is happy and more productive.
- glimshe 3y ago
  I'm all for WFH and dislike going to the office often. But it's the same argument as the parent, from the company's perspective. Once local executives taste the fruits of in-person "watch the cattle" control, which was the entirety of their careers, it's hard for them to go back to "forced worker freedom".
  - hdjjhhvvhga 3y ago
    Yeah but the choice is clear. Most tech workers prefer remote work or at least freedom of choice.
  - ryandrake 3y ago
    I'd love to glimpse into the minds of the corporate exec class and understand why they are so uniformly aligned on RTO and against WFH. Is it really as simple and primal as wanting to watch the cattle or "behold my empire" or do they really believe it's better for business? I guess I'll never know since, 1. corporate execs don't post to HN comments section and 2. even if they did they would probably not admit to a narcissistic need to bask in the buzz of an office full of their minions.
- the_bear 3y ago
  Many people who want to work from the office are mostly interested in doing so because they want to be around their coworkers. If their coworkers are remote, they won't get what they want. Similarly, remote people might not be happy at a company that allows remote work but primarily has an in-person culture. Letting everyone do what they want is not a path towards everyone being happy. I think a better approach is for companies (or at least teams) to land somewhere on the spectrum from full in-person to full remote, and then employees can work at the place that fits them best.
apexalpha 3y ago
From my perspective, it feels like this post is putting the cart before the horse. In stead of thinking: I'd like to go back to the office because our home is too small, why don't you think: I'd like to work from home so that I can afford a bigger house for less cost?
- sanderjd 3y ago
  Because not everyone wants a big home or to live in the places where big homes are inexpensive.
coryfklein 3y ago
Hence the "and you like the taste" qualification. I don't think OP is talking about you.
derwiki 3y ago
Working from anywhere with a toddler running around seems unproductive
danaris 3y ago
And one of the consequences of widespread remote work—as we're already seeing—is more people deciding they don't want to continue to live in a cramped, expensive city apartment. This doesn't mean everyone will—there are certainly other benefits to living in a city besides proximity to workplace. But it is likely that, given time (and probably some common-sense changes to housing policies), this will result in less pressure for apartments, meaning that people who do remain in cities will be likely to be able to afford more space.
- sanderjd 3y ago
  > And one of the consequences of widespread remote work—as we're already seeing—is more people deciding they don't want to continue to live in a cramped, expensive city apartment. Are we seeing that? Certainly lots of people have left SF, but the pandemic / WFH did not reverse the general trend toward urbanism. The geographic flexibility has been in people picking different cities, not in people choosing to move to rural areas en masse.
Jcowell 3y ago
on the flip side of this I live in a house in NYC (the outer boroughs and yes the outer boroughs are a part of the city) and have the corner of my bedroom into a full WFH station. I am missing the kid component though.
antisthenes 3y ago
> you are in a low cost of living area (at least relative to your income) and have a big house? Orthogonal to WFH conversation, are there even low COL areas left in the US that aren't complete and total sh*tholes? In my state, houses that were selling for $150-200k pre-Covid in low COL areas are now going for 350-400k, and that's not even anywhere near urban centers, it's about 50-70 miles out in more rural areas.

Cymrukicks 3y ago

Or you could keep your jobs and move to a lower cost of living area making us of more space?

tetromino_ 3y ago
Irrespective of lack of space, NYC is the only place in the US where I have enjoyed living.
- sanderjd 3y ago
  Yeah people always miss this: Job availability is not the only reason people don't all move to rural Kentucky. People like living in expensive cities! That's why so many people live there!
- muttled 3y ago
  Not that they'd do this, but if the company offered what it was paying for office space for you as a stipend for your home office, would that change your mind? Some quick Google math suggests an average of $80/sqft/year for NYC office space and suggests 100 sqft per-person for an open-office worker which comes out to $600-700 a month. Again, cursory Google search, but it looks like that's right about the price increase to go from a 2BR to a 3BR and have a home office.

hdjjhhvvhga 3y ago

That's why I don't understand the insistence on RTO. It's clear from all discussions that people have different views on the topics. So why don't give people a choice? Those who want to work in the office should be free to do so, as should be the rest of us who sees no reasons to go back. In this scenario everybody is happy and more productive.

glimshe 3y ago
I'm all for WFH and dislike going to the office often. But it's the same argument as the parent, from the company's perspective. Once local executives taste the fruits of in-person "watch the cattle" control, which was the entirety of their careers, it's hard for them to go back to "forced worker freedom".
- hdjjhhvvhga 3y ago
  Yeah but the choice is clear. Most tech workers prefer remote work or at least freedom of choice.
- ryandrake 3y ago
  I'd love to glimpse into the minds of the corporate exec class and understand why they are so uniformly aligned on RTO and against WFH. Is it really as simple and primal as wanting to watch the cattle or "behold my empire" or do they really believe it's better for business? I guess I'll never know since, 1. corporate execs don't post to HN comments section and 2. even if they did they would probably not admit to a narcissistic need to bask in the buzz of an office full of their minions.
the_bear 3y ago
Many people who want to work from the office are mostly interested in doing so because they want to be around their coworkers. If their coworkers are remote, they won't get what they want. Similarly, remote people might not be happy at a company that allows remote work but primarily has an in-person culture. Letting everyone do what they want is not a path towards everyone being happy. I think a better approach is for companies (or at least teams) to land somewhere on the spectrum from full in-person to full remote, and then employees can work at the place that fits them best.

apexalpha 3y ago

From my perspective, it feels like this post is putting the cart before the horse. In stead of thinking: I'd like to go back to the office because our home is too small, why don't you think: I'd like to work from home so that I can afford a bigger house for less cost?

sanderjd 3y ago
Because not everyone wants a big home or to live in the places where big homes are inexpensive.

coryfklein 3y ago

Hence the "and you like the taste" qualification. I don't think OP is talking about you.

derwiki 3y ago

Working from anywhere with a toddler running around seems unproductive

danaris 3y ago

And one of the consequences of widespread remote work—as we're already seeing—is more people deciding they don't want to continue to live in a cramped, expensive city apartment. This doesn't mean everyone will—there are certainly other benefits to living in a city besides proximity to workplace. But it is likely that, given time (and probably some common-sense changes to housing policies), this will result in less pressure for apartments, meaning that people who do remain in cities will be likely to be able to afford more space.

sanderjd 3y ago
> And one of the consequences of widespread remote work—as we're already seeing—is more people deciding they don't want to continue to live in a cramped, expensive city apartment. Are we seeing that? Certainly lots of people have left SF, but the pandemic / WFH did not reverse the general trend toward urbanism. The geographic flexibility has been in people picking different cities, not in people choosing to move to rural areas en masse.

Jcowell 3y ago

on the flip side of this I live in a house in NYC (the outer boroughs and yes the outer boroughs are a part of the city) and have the corner of my bedroom into a full WFH station. I am missing the kid component though.

antisthenes 3y ago

> you are in a low cost of living area (at least relative to your income) and have a big house? Orthogonal to WFH conversation, are there even low COL areas left in the US that aren't complete and total sh*tholes? In my state, houses that were selling for $150-200k pre-Covid in low COL areas are now going for 350-400k, and that's not even anywhere near urban centers, it's about 50-70 miles out in more rural areas.