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I think one reason why Pixars "decline" is more harshly felt is because the Pixar "style" is the only type of flagship animated feature Disney puts out nowadays

I think one reason why Pixars "decline" is more harshly felt is because the Pixar "style" is the only type of flagship animated feature Disney puts out nowadays. It's not that Pixar has always been good, like any company there's been ups and downs, but because Disney themselves have also gone all in on 3D animated films[0] (and none of those really come close to what Pixar puts out; even the recent flop of Elemental is still a better movie than most 3D Disney movies of the past decade), all those movies get compared to each other in a much more direct manner. Back in the early 2000s, it was pretty straightforward; Disney did the 2D animation, Pixar the 3D animation. It means that when Pixar or Disney puts out a stinker, its easily covered by the other. A sort of trade if you will. Disney has kinda now ended up in a bit of a slump for the past decade (likely directly the fault of the Live Action Remakes they keep doing - it feels really uncreative), so the highs and lows of Pixar are that much more apparent. They'll be doing fine. Elemental sucked, but it doesn't seem like it's a pattern for Pixars movie creation process. Not in the way that Shrek's poop humor ended up dominating DreamWorks for over a decade or how Despicable Mes "marketability" ended up ruining Illumination. [0]: The last blockbuster 2D animated movie was the Princess and the Frog and according to Disney it didn't make enough money to continue making them.

genmon 3y ago
I wouldn't agree that Disney is in a slump at all -- and it's possibly their lack of slump that makes it easier to level shots at Pixar. Frozen (2013) just gets in your decade window. Then there's Moana (2016) and Encanto (2021). All three have been hits with great songs, values and storytelling.
- noirscape 3y ago
  The release cycle is still a lot more staggered since Disney just interspices it with a lot more filler content (those Live Action Remakes) that the Pixar releases are somewhat meant to fall back on. For every Frozen, there's a Tangled that doesn't make the cut in quality and that stands out when they don't have the same consistent release cycle of movies for the animated canon since it's broken up by the mostly mediocre Live Action ones.
  - epiccoleman 3y ago
    I would take Tangled over Moana any day of the week. Moana looks fantastic and the music is good, but the story of the movie left me pretty cold.
  - basch 3y ago
    Staggered how? They have averaged a movie a year for the last 40 years. The Disney live action movies have almost nothing to do with the release schedule of Disney Animation movies, nor have they impacted how many get made. They are completely different studios. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Walt_Disney_Animation_Studios_films https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Walt_Disney_Animation_... Their 3D movies in order are Chicken Little, Meet the Robinsons, Bolt, Tangled, (Pooh), Wreck it Ralph, Frozen, Big Hero 6, Zootopia, Moana, Ralph Breaks the Internet, Frozen II, Raya, Encanto, Strange Worlds. That’s 15 movies in 17 years, and Princess and the Frog makes 16. Bolt, Tangled, Ralph, Frozen, Big Hero 6, Zootopia, Moana was an excellent run. (Disney acquired Pixar during production of Meet the Robinsons, and about 60% of the movie was remade, every movie since was produced by Pixar descendants.) And Tangled is better than Frozen, even if it didn’t have the zeitgeist. (Tangled is the highest rated of any movie I listed on Letterboxd, followed by Big Hero 6, Moana, and Zootopia, so I’m not unique in that opinion. Not sure what the Letterboxd community has against Bolt.) Outside of Chicken Little, there’s really not a bad movie on that list (I haven’t seen Strange World yet.) If anything, acquiring Pixar doubled their animation output. I’ll give you, that if you ignore Ralph Breaks the Internet and Frozen 2 (sequels they put a huge amount of effort into), there appears to be a creative gap from Moana in 2016, till Raya/Encanto in 2021, which happens to overlap the acceleration of live action remakes. They made 5 live action remakes in 2019, with only Frozen II against them. If any events radically altered the trajectory of Disney Animation output, they are in order: Frozen and Ralph being such big hits that Disney pivoted to sequels, John Lasseter being removed in 2018, and Covid.
bladegash 3y ago
Huh? Disney Animation Studios (not Pixar) has made three movies in the last ten years that are among the highest grossing movies of all time (Frozen, Zootopia, and Frozen II). In terms of quality, anecdotally two of my personal favorite Disney movies ever were done by them within that timespan as well (Moana and Encanto). My impression has been that the gap between Disney Animation Studios and Pixar has drastically narrowed.
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- jjbickerstaffe 3y ago
  Disney bought Pixar in 2006 and put Ed Catmull of Pixar and John Lasseter of Pixar in charge of both Disney animation and Pixar.
  - bladegash 3y ago
    I am not sure what your point is? They are two very distinct and independent animation studios, which OP seemed to be aware of.
    - jjbickerstaffe 3y ago
      Sorry I wasn't super clear. I was replying to "the gap between Disney Animation Studios and Pixar has drastically narrowed", and commenting that the reason this happened is because from 2006 it was Pixar management in charge of Disney animation. Ed Catmull and John Lasseter brought over the lessons and management style that they had learned at Pixar and thus changed how Disney animation was run. So for instance they created a Disney "Story Trust" to provide feedback to directors in the same vein as the Pixar "Brain Trust". They also removed an oversight committee at Disney that was charged with keeping all film projects on budget, but in their view was holding back the film-making. i.e. the two studios are not as distinct and independent as it appears people are suggesting.
loloquwowndueo 3y ago
While not a “blockbuster” and usually not considered part of Disney canon, Winnie the Pooh released in 2011 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnie_the_Pooh_(2011_film) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnie_the_Pooh_(2011_film) well after the Princess and the Frog.
dumpsterdiver 3y ago
If you have any doubt about the 2D productions that Disney is releasing these days, I would implore you to check out their Star Wars "Visions" series. Aside from animation, I found the new Disney release "American Born Chinese" to be a refreshing change of pace. It was produced by the makers of Shang-Chi, which I'm a huge fan of, and often put on in the background.
- noirscape 3y ago
  Visions was just Disney throwing money at a bunch of anime studios and telling them "make something cool for Star Wars, you don't have to care about canon". It's pretty good, don't get me wrong, but it's not a Disney animated studios production.
  - dumpsterdiver 3y ago
    Fair enough. What you describe definitely seems apparent in the show (a variety of anime styles, none of which really have the style a person might associate with Disney), so I'm not surprised to hear that.

genmon 3y ago

I wouldn't agree that Disney is in a slump at all -- and it's possibly their lack of slump that makes it easier to level shots at Pixar. Frozen (2013) just gets in your decade window. Then there's Moana (2016) and Encanto (2021). All three have been hits with great songs, values and storytelling.

noirscape 3y ago
The release cycle is still a lot more staggered since Disney just interspices it with a lot more filler content (those Live Action Remakes) that the Pixar releases are somewhat meant to fall back on. For every Frozen, there's a Tangled that doesn't make the cut in quality and that stands out when they don't have the same consistent release cycle of movies for the animated canon since it's broken up by the mostly mediocre Live Action ones.
- epiccoleman 3y ago
  I would take Tangled over Moana any day of the week. Moana looks fantastic and the music is good, but the story of the movie left me pretty cold.
- basch 3y ago
  Staggered how? They have averaged a movie a year for the last 40 years. The Disney live action movies have almost nothing to do with the release schedule of Disney Animation movies, nor have they impacted how many get made. They are completely different studios. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Walt_Disney_Animation_Studios_films https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Walt_Disney_Animation_... Their 3D movies in order are Chicken Little, Meet the Robinsons, Bolt, Tangled, (Pooh), Wreck it Ralph, Frozen, Big Hero 6, Zootopia, Moana, Ralph Breaks the Internet, Frozen II, Raya, Encanto, Strange Worlds. That’s 15 movies in 17 years, and Princess and the Frog makes 16. Bolt, Tangled, Ralph, Frozen, Big Hero 6, Zootopia, Moana was an excellent run. (Disney acquired Pixar during production of Meet the Robinsons, and about 60% of the movie was remade, every movie since was produced by Pixar descendants.) And Tangled is better than Frozen, even if it didn’t have the zeitgeist. (Tangled is the highest rated of any movie I listed on Letterboxd, followed by Big Hero 6, Moana, and Zootopia, so I’m not unique in that opinion. Not sure what the Letterboxd community has against Bolt.) Outside of Chicken Little, there’s really not a bad movie on that list (I haven’t seen Strange World yet.) If anything, acquiring Pixar doubled their animation output. I’ll give you, that if you ignore Ralph Breaks the Internet and Frozen 2 (sequels they put a huge amount of effort into), there appears to be a creative gap from Moana in 2016, till Raya/Encanto in 2021, which happens to overlap the acceleration of live action remakes. They made 5 live action remakes in 2019, with only Frozen II against them. If any events radically altered the trajectory of Disney Animation output, they are in order: Frozen and Ralph being such big hits that Disney pivoted to sequels, John Lasseter being removed in 2018, and Covid.

bladegash 3y ago

Huh? Disney Animation Studios (not Pixar) has made three movies in the last ten years that are among the highest grossing movies of all time (Frozen, Zootopia, and Frozen II). In terms of quality, anecdotally two of my personal favorite Disney movies ever were done by them within that timespan as well (Moana and Encanto). My impression has been that the gap between Disney Animation Studios and Pixar has drastically narrowed.

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jjbickerstaffe 3y ago
Disney bought Pixar in 2006 and put Ed Catmull of Pixar and John Lasseter of Pixar in charge of both Disney animation and Pixar.
- bladegash 3y ago
  I am not sure what your point is? They are two very distinct and independent animation studios, which OP seemed to be aware of.
  - jjbickerstaffe 3y ago
    Sorry I wasn't super clear. I was replying to "the gap between Disney Animation Studios and Pixar has drastically narrowed", and commenting that the reason this happened is because from 2006 it was Pixar management in charge of Disney animation. Ed Catmull and John Lasseter brought over the lessons and management style that they had learned at Pixar and thus changed how Disney animation was run. So for instance they created a Disney "Story Trust" to provide feedback to directors in the same vein as the Pixar "Brain Trust". They also removed an oversight committee at Disney that was charged with keeping all film projects on budget, but in their view was holding back the film-making. i.e. the two studios are not as distinct and independent as it appears people are suggesting.

loloquwowndueo 3y ago

While not a “blockbuster” and usually not considered part of Disney canon, Winnie the Pooh released in 2011 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnie_the_Pooh_(2011_film) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnie_the_Pooh_(2011_film) well after the Princess and the Frog.

dumpsterdiver 3y ago

If you have any doubt about the 2D productions that Disney is releasing these days, I would implore you to check out their Star Wars "Visions" series. Aside from animation, I found the new Disney release "American Born Chinese" to be a refreshing change of pace. It was produced by the makers of Shang-Chi, which I'm a huge fan of, and often put on in the background.

noirscape 3y ago
Visions was just Disney throwing money at a bunch of anime studios and telling them "make something cool for Star Wars, you don't have to care about canon". It's pretty good, don't get me wrong, but it's not a Disney animated studios production.
- dumpsterdiver 3y ago
  Fair enough. What you describe definitely seems apparent in the show (a variety of anime styles, none of which really have the style a person might associate with Disney), so I'm not surprised to hear that.