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…what? Sorry to harsh the vibe, but that second paragraph reads like something out of 2014 when people were first reading REMOTE. At this point remote work is

…what? Sorry to harsh the vibe, but that second paragraph reads like something out of 2014 when people were first reading REMOTE. At this point remote work is nothing new, and while many large companies don’t like it, many large companies are going along with it (and developing the culture, documentation, etc.) because it works well as a way to attract talent. And some startup founders are trying to go “full Musk” and call workers’ bluffs and cement their control, so I don’t think there’s a clean dichotomy here. As for walkable cities, I agree that they would be awesome, but they do not just naturally flow from a remote work culture. And having lived in Thailand for two years I hard disagree about it being a walkable place with good internet (it is cheap, which is nice, but you don’t get what you don’t pay for).

hosh 3y ago
Agreed. People have all sorts of reasons to work remote, and it is not always because of walkability: - proximity to family and community support - quality of schools for kids - some people want to live out in the boonies, with a hobby farm or a real homestead - shared cultural or political values - some folks want to be nomadic, couch surfing or living out of a souped up van or rv - some folks want to be able to stay with extended family for longer - some folks want to cowork locally - I know one guy who lives in a low cost of living area and reinvest the arbitrage back into his local community while still living comfortably In my family’s case, I have been regularly going to the local indoor play gym so that my toddler can wear himself out. It’s too hot to play outside. Also, flexibility != remote There are remote work places which installs invasive software to monitor “butt-in-seat”, and you don’t really get flex time.
stakhanov 3y ago
> At this point remote work is nothing new[...] I couldn't agree more. In fact, historically, the norm has been for the work to come to where people lived with their families, rather than for people to leave their family homes to "go to work". This was at a time when the prevalent type of work was farming and craftsmanship in relation to goods that were easily transported. A craftsman's workshop was usually in the same building as their family home in towns and cities, and rural areas operated a "putting out system" [1] where travelling tradespeople brought supplies and collected finished wares. With industrialization, the factory became a thing, and it somehow got into our heads that factories are the success model that everything else should be modeled after. Offices that don't do factory work started looking like factories. Schools started looking like factories. Public administration started looking like factories. Everything became a factory. ...this trend is hostile to human nature and relatively recent when looking at it on historical timescales. Recent advances in telecommunications have made what little advantage there was to factory-like offices obsolete, and it's time to "return to normal". And by that I mean remote work, because remote work is "historical normal". [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putting-out_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putting-out_system
Kiro 3y ago
You've been lucky and haven't experienced a regular company that is not remote ready. I'm sure most tech companies are in a much better position then the ones where the only communication software is Skype. It's a serious uphill to convert such a company to a remote one.
- throwawaylinux 3y ago
  Most IT and engineering (and probably other "IP based") companies are "remote ready" for the right person. It's not some vast change or investment they have to make, really. You use the laptop they give you and connect from a different place, and continue to go about your job more or less the same way as does everybody who works with you, since most places are perfectly used to remote meetings and have been for decades. If they want you they'll make the accommodation. That goes for prominent companies that have been implementing strict back to office policies. There's no "not ready", it entirely a choice by management.
  - Kiro 3y ago
    I'm not talking about IT or engineering. Anyway, it's not as easy as you say and I have the result right in front of me. The company has not mandated return to office but is still struggling a lot with this so what exactly is the choice by management here? They clearly want it to be a remote company. Another example is my SO who works for a now-flex remote government agency where they are not authorized to use any of the normal software. It's even worse there. Their remote culture is highly dysfunctional and she goes into the office 5 days a week even though she doesn't need to.
    - hosh 3y ago
      Remote work and collaboration requires a very different skillset in order to be effective. So if a company clearly wants to do that (both leadership and staff trying to make things work), it is probably time to bring in a consultant — maybe someone with an anthropology or sociology background that can look at how everyone interacts together with the technology, and can suggest gradual changes there. An example: in some companies, the receptionist knows who has entered and exited the building, and can sometimes become the defacto person that can help people find each other. Someone whose effectiveness depends upon this informal role of the receptionist will find that they can’t work like this anymore when the company goes remote.
seydor 3y ago
> At this point remote work is nothing new I disagree. As long as i still see traffic in cities, it means remote work is still a tiny minority
- saiya-jin 3y ago
  Somebody has to serve you at restaurant, stack shelves at store and about gazillion other jobs that are done physically at location, or they are not done at all. Such claims are so desperately out of touch with reality its a bit sad. There will always be traffic in the cities. Or do you want police or ambulances or surgeons to also work remotely?
  - vikramkr 3y ago
    Your tone sounds like you're criticizing the parent comment but the content of your reply is pretty strongly supporting/backing up the parent comments assertion so I'm having a hard time figuring out if you're trying to disagree or agree lol
  - seydor 3y ago
    At what times is traffic peaking? What are people doing then?
- randomdata 3y ago
  It is relatively uncommon, but nothing new.

hosh 3y ago

Agreed. People have all sorts of reasons to work remote, and it is not always because of walkability: - proximity to family and community support - quality of schools for kids - some people want to live out in the boonies, with a hobby farm or a real homestead - shared cultural or political values - some folks want to be nomadic, couch surfing or living out of a souped up van or rv - some folks want to be able to stay with extended family for longer - some folks want to cowork locally - I know one guy who lives in a low cost of living area and reinvest the arbitrage back into his local community while still living comfortably In my family’s case, I have been regularly going to the local indoor play gym so that my toddler can wear himself out. It’s too hot to play outside. Also, flexibility != remote There are remote work places which installs invasive software to monitor “butt-in-seat”, and you don’t really get flex time.

stakhanov 3y ago

> At this point remote work is nothing new[...] I couldn't agree more. In fact, historically, the norm has been for the work to come to where people lived with their families, rather than for people to leave their family homes to "go to work". This was at a time when the prevalent type of work was farming and craftsmanship in relation to goods that were easily transported. A craftsman's workshop was usually in the same building as their family home in towns and cities, and rural areas operated a "putting out system" [1] where travelling tradespeople brought supplies and collected finished wares. With industrialization, the factory became a thing, and it somehow got into our heads that factories are the success model that everything else should be modeled after. Offices that don't do factory work started looking like factories. Schools started looking like factories. Public administration started looking like factories. Everything became a factory. ...this trend is hostile to human nature and relatively recent when looking at it on historical timescales. Recent advances in telecommunications have made what little advantage there was to factory-like offices obsolete, and it's time to "return to normal". And by that I mean remote work, because remote work is "historical normal". [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putting-out_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putting-out_system

Kiro 3y ago

You've been lucky and haven't experienced a regular company that is not remote ready. I'm sure most tech companies are in a much better position then the ones where the only communication software is Skype. It's a serious uphill to convert such a company to a remote one.

throwawaylinux 3y ago
Most IT and engineering (and probably other "IP based") companies are "remote ready" for the right person. It's not some vast change or investment they have to make, really. You use the laptop they give you and connect from a different place, and continue to go about your job more or less the same way as does everybody who works with you, since most places are perfectly used to remote meetings and have been for decades. If they want you they'll make the accommodation. That goes for prominent companies that have been implementing strict back to office policies. There's no "not ready", it entirely a choice by management.
- Kiro 3y ago
  I'm not talking about IT or engineering. Anyway, it's not as easy as you say and I have the result right in front of me. The company has not mandated return to office but is still struggling a lot with this so what exactly is the choice by management here? They clearly want it to be a remote company. Another example is my SO who works for a now-flex remote government agency where they are not authorized to use any of the normal software. It's even worse there. Their remote culture is highly dysfunctional and she goes into the office 5 days a week even though she doesn't need to.
  - hosh 3y ago
    Remote work and collaboration requires a very different skillset in order to be effective. So if a company clearly wants to do that (both leadership and staff trying to make things work), it is probably time to bring in a consultant — maybe someone with an anthropology or sociology background that can look at how everyone interacts together with the technology, and can suggest gradual changes there. An example: in some companies, the receptionist knows who has entered and exited the building, and can sometimes become the defacto person that can help people find each other. Someone whose effectiveness depends upon this informal role of the receptionist will find that they can’t work like this anymore when the company goes remote.

seydor 3y ago

> At this point remote work is nothing new I disagree. As long as i still see traffic in cities, it means remote work is still a tiny minority

saiya-jin 3y ago
Somebody has to serve you at restaurant, stack shelves at store and about gazillion other jobs that are done physically at location, or they are not done at all. Such claims are so desperately out of touch with reality its a bit sad. There will always be traffic in the cities. Or do you want police or ambulances or surgeons to also work remotely?
- vikramkr 3y ago
  Your tone sounds like you're criticizing the parent comment but the content of your reply is pretty strongly supporting/backing up the parent comments assertion so I'm having a hard time figuring out if you're trying to disagree or agree lol
- seydor 3y ago
  At what times is traffic peaking? What are people doing then?
randomdata 3y ago
It is relatively uncommon, but nothing new.