3 ms·

>It's not as if we don't have solid data supporting benefits to companies. Please show us some of this data. My point was that people cannot show the hard dat

>It's not as if we don't have solid data supporting benefits to companies. Please show us some of this data. My point was that people cannot show the hard data and you have responded alluding to data, but not showing any. >We can point to research that has been going on for decades showing that open floor plans and cube farms hurt productivity. Again, please show us some of this data. >We can point to the savings companies can reap by not having to house all those employees and provide for their needs while in the office. Everybody thinks this is expensive, but unless you are a FAANG doing all sorts of over the top fancy benefits that most companies do not provide, this is actually not dramatically expensive. So please show us some of this data. >We can show that people who work remotely don't have to worry as much about mass shootings and other types of office violence/harassment. Say huh? This is really a strange reasoning IMO. Is this honestly a viable threat where you live that people actually give this a worry? If you are going to use safety as part of your argument, cite automobile accidents their injuries/death associated with primary commuting hours. Much more likely to get any sort of number that might convince an organization to opt for WFH over in office. >Basically, we know that offices are terrible, and that alternatives are needed… No, we don’t know that. You have an opinion about it, but like I said above, you have not pointed to any hard data that could convince a organization to opt for WFH over in office. >but what we lack is years of research into the advantages and disadvantages of remote work as an alternate Here you go, finally something I can agree with. However, this works specifically against your case.

autoexec 3y ago
> Please show us some of this data. My point was that people cannot show the hard data and you have responded alluding to data, but not showing any. Feel free to start here, but google will give you a lot more: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0013916502034003001 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0013916502034003001 https://doi.org/10.1098/rstb.2017.0239 https://doi.org/10.1098/rstb.2017.0239 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/2158244020988869 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/2158244020988869 https://www.oxfordeconomics.com/publication/open/265307 https://www.oxfordeconomics.com/publication/open/265307 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0272494413000340 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S02724... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2255877/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2255877/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1443885/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1443885/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1404804/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1404804/ > Everybody thinks this is expensive, but unless you are a FAANG doing all sorts of over the top fancy benefits that most companies do not provide, this is actually not dramatically expensive. So please show us some of this data. I don't think there is any research into questions like "do companies save money when they don't pay as much in rent and utilities" because the conclusion is self-evident. You can argue that companies don't mind the costs, or that the costs are small compared to the profits successful companies make, but if a company doesn't have to pay someone to stock vending machines, doesn't have to pay for vast amounts of floor space in commercial buildings, doesn't have to buy and replace office supplies, doesn't need to replenish toiletries, etc then they will clearly be saving money and it's just a question of how large those savings will be. > Say huh? This is really a strange reasoning IMO. Is this honestly a viable threat where you live that people actually give this a worry? In America? Yes, sadly, this is a real threat. One company I worked for gave hundreds of employees 5 days off with pay just because they feared a disgruntled employee would come in and shoot up the place. They just said "We'll pay you, you don't have to work, just don't come here!". Every place I've worked for in the last 10 years or so has had active shooter training sessions (at some expense!) and paid for security services (both onsite and on call). No doubt that traffic accidents take more employee lives though! I suspect the difference to a company is that their name doesn't make the headlines when an employee gets in a car accident on the way to work and they don't want the bad press.
- kcplate 3y ago
  What you have provided is evidence that some office layouts are better than others, and some buildings with inadequate air flow can cause issues. Everything you have provided here doesn’t really answer the general question which is: “Demonstrate with hard facts to an employer that work from home is more productive than in office work for the organization.” Now, if I am the CEO of InOffice Corp and I want all my remote employees to RTO now that the pandemic is over, all these things you have provided do not apply to our situation. While we did not see a marked drop in employee productivity when we moved to WFH, we also did not see a marked improvement in employee productivity either. Also, we own or have long term leases on all of our buildings and the commercial real estate market is not conducive to a reasonable financial exit from our leases and properties. We would like to take advantage of our beautiful work spaces and believe that in office work is importance for our company culture. We have prided ourselves on our culture for 50 years and we believe that it was instrumental to our success. Also, none of our office layouts fall into “the bad” categories that you provided. In fact, all were expertly designed by the most reputable and award winning interior design company that provided amazing data showing how their design increases employee productivity. Sick building syndrome is a non issue as well, because in all our buildings the HVAC is regularly tested for mold and serviced. We have never had a sick building syndrome claim against any location due to our aggressive efforts out of concern for your health. As for your personal safety, our buildings are guarded and all access is controlled. In our 50 years of operation across 100 company owned locations, we have never had a security incident. So we believe your fears are unfounded.
  - autoexec 3y ago
    > “Demonstrate with hard facts to an employer that work from home is more productive than in office work for the organization.” Again, we only have evidence that offices are bad for employees, and that happy workers are more productive, but I suspect that we'll have a lot more evidence about the advantages and disadvantages of remote work in the coming years. I also suspect that employees who enjoyed remote work will be more unhappy being back in an office than they were before they had a taste of freedom. > we own or have long term leases on all of our buildings and the commercial real estate market is not conducive to a reasonable financial exit from our leases and properties. That's an example of a sunk cost fallacy. > . Also, none of our office layouts fall into “the bad” categories that you provided. If you've managed to avoid open floor plans and cubicles than you're better off than most offices. You'll have to hope that the nice office and culture will be valued so much by employees that they won't mind giving up the ability work in an environment of their own choosing, closer to the things and people that they love. The good news is that there are a lot of people who really enjoy commuting and working in an office. Some people who were forced to work remotely during the worst of the pandemic have really struggled with it. You might find you lose a lot of talent, and that you struggle to hire new workers with your self-imposed restrictions of "needs to be geographically near us or willing to upend their lives and relocate, and must love commuting and working in an office environment" but there are certainly some people who will fit that criteria (or at least be willing to fake it), especially if you're paying your workers a lot more than others.

autoexec 3y ago

> Please show us some of this data. My point was that people cannot show the hard data and you have responded alluding to data, but not showing any. Feel free to start here, but google will give you a lot more: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0013916502034003001 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0013916502034003001 https://doi.org/10.1098/rstb.2017.0239 https://doi.org/10.1098/rstb.2017.0239 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/2158244020988869 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/2158244020988869 https://www.oxfordeconomics.com/publication/open/265307 https://www.oxfordeconomics.com/publication/open/265307 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0272494413000340 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S02724... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2255877/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2255877/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1443885/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1443885/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1404804/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1404804/ > Everybody thinks this is expensive, but unless you are a FAANG doing all sorts of over the top fancy benefits that most companies do not provide, this is actually not dramatically expensive. So please show us some of this data. I don't think there is any research into questions like "do companies save money when they don't pay as much in rent and utilities" because the conclusion is self-evident. You can argue that companies don't mind the costs, or that the costs are small compared to the profits successful companies make, but if a company doesn't have to pay someone to stock vending machines, doesn't have to pay for vast amounts of floor space in commercial buildings, doesn't have to buy and replace office supplies, doesn't need to replenish toiletries, etc then they will clearly be saving money and it's just a question of how large those savings will be. > Say huh? This is really a strange reasoning IMO. Is this honestly a viable threat where you live that people actually give this a worry? In America? Yes, sadly, this is a real threat. One company I worked for gave hundreds of employees 5 days off with pay just because they feared a disgruntled employee would come in and shoot up the place. They just said "We'll pay you, you don't have to work, just don't come here!". Every place I've worked for in the last 10 years or so has had active shooter training sessions (at some expense!) and paid for security services (both onsite and on call). No doubt that traffic accidents take more employee lives though! I suspect the difference to a company is that their name doesn't make the headlines when an employee gets in a car accident on the way to work and they don't want the bad press.

kcplate 3y ago
What you have provided is evidence that some office layouts are better than others, and some buildings with inadequate air flow can cause issues. Everything you have provided here doesn’t really answer the general question which is: “Demonstrate with hard facts to an employer that work from home is more productive than in office work for the organization.” Now, if I am the CEO of InOffice Corp and I want all my remote employees to RTO now that the pandemic is over, all these things you have provided do not apply to our situation. While we did not see a marked drop in employee productivity when we moved to WFH, we also did not see a marked improvement in employee productivity either. Also, we own or have long term leases on all of our buildings and the commercial real estate market is not conducive to a reasonable financial exit from our leases and properties. We would like to take advantage of our beautiful work spaces and believe that in office work is importance for our company culture. We have prided ourselves on our culture for 50 years and we believe that it was instrumental to our success. Also, none of our office layouts fall into “the bad” categories that you provided. In fact, all were expertly designed by the most reputable and award winning interior design company that provided amazing data showing how their design increases employee productivity. Sick building syndrome is a non issue as well, because in all our buildings the HVAC is regularly tested for mold and serviced. We have never had a sick building syndrome claim against any location due to our aggressive efforts out of concern for your health. As for your personal safety, our buildings are guarded and all access is controlled. In our 50 years of operation across 100 company owned locations, we have never had a security incident. So we believe your fears are unfounded.
- autoexec 3y ago
  > “Demonstrate with hard facts to an employer that work from home is more productive than in office work for the organization.” Again, we only have evidence that offices are bad for employees, and that happy workers are more productive, but I suspect that we'll have a lot more evidence about the advantages and disadvantages of remote work in the coming years. I also suspect that employees who enjoyed remote work will be more unhappy being back in an office than they were before they had a taste of freedom. > we own or have long term leases on all of our buildings and the commercial real estate market is not conducive to a reasonable financial exit from our leases and properties. That's an example of a sunk cost fallacy. > . Also, none of our office layouts fall into “the bad” categories that you provided. If you've managed to avoid open floor plans and cubicles than you're better off than most offices. You'll have to hope that the nice office and culture will be valued so much by employees that they won't mind giving up the ability work in an environment of their own choosing, closer to the things and people that they love. The good news is that there are a lot of people who really enjoy commuting and working in an office. Some people who were forced to work remotely during the worst of the pandemic have really struggled with it. You might find you lose a lot of talent, and that you struggle to hire new workers with your self-imposed restrictions of "needs to be geographically near us or willing to upend their lives and relocate, and must love commuting and working in an office environment" but there are certainly some people who will fit that criteria (or at least be willing to fake it), especially if you're paying your workers a lot more than others.