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I think it an unsupported assertion that mentoring is not possible in remote environments. The mentoring process does work better when its intentional and remot

by dv_dt 3y ago

I think it an unsupported assertion that mentoring is not possible in remote environments. The mentoring process does work better when its intentional and remote may need a change in the process of mentoring vs in-office. But the can’t do it is an assertion convenient to the return to office chaff.

WheatMillington 3y ago
I cannot imagine how miserable it must be to be a junior being remotely mentored.
- dv_dt 3y ago
  Why? Periodic meetups, discussion, pair programming, and a slack channel or other RT channel with an open invite to ping. What is missing? And actually in well documented places with pointers to sandbox environments (which remote tends to force better docs for both), it's great to let the juniors play and ask questions on missing and poorly documented items - reproducibility and learning is improved. And I've worked too many in-person places where mentoring is random, unplanned and ineffective because of it.
- hsjqllzlfkf 3y ago
  It's not the first time hear this view and I still don't understand it. In my mind this would only make sense in a scenario where the junior is a motivated hard working person and the mentor, working from home, is someone who doesn't give a shit. But the root cause here isn't the wfh.
  - creakingstairs 3y ago
    I know it’s just anecdotal but I really do think mentoring is usually better offline. It doesn’t mean it can’t be done well remotely. But there are way more hurdles in the way. One of the perks being in the same space is that it is much easier to clear up misunderstandings. Things like body language, facial expressions really do play a huge part in our communication. Especially if people are from different cultures. Also, a lot of juniors are already nervous when they start so having people with friendly body language around helps. Being in the same space and doing shared activities also helps people gel together. Looking back at my days as a junior and as buddies later, I just don’t think zoom meetings are equal to shared activities like morning coffees and occasional table tennis to blow off steam. I don’t think I would have gotten along with some people if it weren’t for shared experiences in the office. All this being said, I really do love wfh though. So I often think about how we could get the best of both worlds.
- anthony_d 3y ago
  Before giving my anecdotal response I want to say I’m well into the senior end of the spectrum. Maybe that disqualifies me but maybe it doesn’t. Anyway, my previous company was about 100 people and purely remote. I had a brilliant manager who taught me a lot. We did pair sessions and worked through stuff together via Zoom or Google (really can’t remember what video chat we used). Remote was never a problem. Now I work at a company of about 200k and I’m in the office most of the time. Every single one of my brain cells is atrophying. I haven’t learned anything in the 18 months I’ve been here.
  - dent9876543 3y ago
    Maybe the point of hiring you was not for you to learn, but for you to teach.
- fmajid 3y ago
  You don't have to imagine. The overwhelming feedback from schools and universities is that remote learning sucks. It would take a leap of faith to imagine workers are any different because they have an employment contract.
  - MattPalmer1086 3y ago
    If you are set up for remote learning it's fine. Royal Holloway has been running a remote MSc in Info Sec for nearly 20 years. The tutors said we were more motivated, and ironically, more social than the on-campus students. If you are forced to suddenly teach everyone remotely due to a global pandemic, it probably won't work as well...
- stutzbearcat 3y ago
  As somebody who got trained, finished an internship with an offer and promoted as a software engineer during the pandemic it worked great for me. My company didn’t do anything differently to help people starting out as sdes and it still worked. Of course every person us different so some will find the in person easier but I think most could make it work remotely. Especially if a company invests in helping to make it work.
flappyeagle 3y ago
Learning in person is more effective than remote for most people. Schools tried this during 2020-2021. It sucked.
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 3y ago
  Schools are one-sided and 1 teacher teaches to a class of 20. The teacher talks, the others listen. Mentoring is usually 1 on 2, or one to 2/3, the mentor alters the session based on what happens and listen to your feedback. Also, the mentor is open to feedback to improve their mentoring session. And you can ask for a break if you are tired or need more time. My opinion is that the two are not really comparable
- dv_dt 3y ago
  Can one really separate the effects of mass covid with no vaccines, sick and dying parents & siblings, short planning, economic stresses, underfunded tech transition budgets in schools from remote learning?

by dv_dt 3y ago

WheatMillington 3y ago

I cannot imagine how miserable it must be to be a junior being remotely mentored.

dv_dt 3y ago
Why? Periodic meetups, discussion, pair programming, and a slack channel or other RT channel with an open invite to ping. What is missing? And actually in well documented places with pointers to sandbox environments (which remote tends to force better docs for both), it's great to let the juniors play and ask questions on missing and poorly documented items - reproducibility and learning is improved. And I've worked too many in-person places where mentoring is random, unplanned and ineffective because of it.
hsjqllzlfkf 3y ago
It's not the first time hear this view and I still don't understand it. In my mind this would only make sense in a scenario where the junior is a motivated hard working person and the mentor, working from home, is someone who doesn't give a shit. But the root cause here isn't the wfh.
- creakingstairs 3y ago
  I know it’s just anecdotal but I really do think mentoring is usually better offline. It doesn’t mean it can’t be done well remotely. But there are way more hurdles in the way. One of the perks being in the same space is that it is much easier to clear up misunderstandings. Things like body language, facial expressions really do play a huge part in our communication. Especially if people are from different cultures. Also, a lot of juniors are already nervous when they start so having people with friendly body language around helps. Being in the same space and doing shared activities also helps people gel together. Looking back at my days as a junior and as buddies later, I just don’t think zoom meetings are equal to shared activities like morning coffees and occasional table tennis to blow off steam. I don’t think I would have gotten along with some people if it weren’t for shared experiences in the office. All this being said, I really do love wfh though. So I often think about how we could get the best of both worlds.
anthony_d 3y ago
Before giving my anecdotal response I want to say I’m well into the senior end of the spectrum. Maybe that disqualifies me but maybe it doesn’t. Anyway, my previous company was about 100 people and purely remote. I had a brilliant manager who taught me a lot. We did pair sessions and worked through stuff together via Zoom or Google (really can’t remember what video chat we used). Remote was never a problem. Now I work at a company of about 200k and I’m in the office most of the time. Every single one of my brain cells is atrophying. I haven’t learned anything in the 18 months I’ve been here.
- dent9876543 3y ago
  Maybe the point of hiring you was not for you to learn, but for you to teach.
fmajid 3y ago
You don't have to imagine. The overwhelming feedback from schools and universities is that remote learning sucks. It would take a leap of faith to imagine workers are any different because they have an employment contract.
- MattPalmer1086 3y ago
  If you are set up for remote learning it's fine. Royal Holloway has been running a remote MSc in Info Sec for nearly 20 years. The tutors said we were more motivated, and ironically, more social than the on-campus students. If you are forced to suddenly teach everyone remotely due to a global pandemic, it probably won't work as well...
stutzbearcat 3y ago
As somebody who got trained, finished an internship with an offer and promoted as a software engineer during the pandemic it worked great for me. My company didn’t do anything differently to help people starting out as sdes and it still worked. Of course every person us different so some will find the in person easier but I think most could make it work remotely. Especially if a company invests in helping to make it work.

flappyeagle 3y ago

Learning in person is more effective than remote for most people. Schools tried this during 2020-2021. It sucked.

Fire-Dragon-DoL 3y ago
Schools are one-sided and 1 teacher teaches to a class of 20. The teacher talks, the others listen. Mentoring is usually 1 on 2, or one to 2/3, the mentor alters the session based on what happens and listen to your feedback. Also, the mentor is open to feedback to improve their mentoring session. And you can ask for a break if you are tired or need more time. My opinion is that the two are not really comparable
dv_dt 3y ago
Can one really separate the effects of mass covid with no vaccines, sick and dying parents & siblings, short planning, economic stresses, underfunded tech transition budgets in schools from remote learning?