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Another wonderful joy brought to the world by Google's complete and total lack of incentive to care about privacy and security. Cool.

Zambyte 3y ago
Google doesn't care about your privacy and security. Neither does Apple. The difference is that Apple sees iPhones that have been sold as their property. So does Google, but to a lesser extent right now.
jeroenhd 3y ago
This has nothing to do with Google. Stalkerware exists for all common platforms (Android, iOS, macOS, Windows). I'm sure there's a tool out there that works on Linux too, but the dozens of stalkerware victims running Linux probably aren't worth the investment. Personally, I blame Apple with its supposed "safe" walled garden more for the many stalkerware products than Android where the ability to install apps from third parties exists. Their whole walled garden shtick revolves around how they protect their users, after all, which rings pretty hollow when they allow apps like these to exist on their platform. Shows how much Apple really cares about your safety!
- ramesh31 3y ago
  > Personally, I blame Apple with its supposed "safe" walled garden more for the many stalkerware products than Android where the ability to install apps from third parties exists. Their whole walled garden shtick revolves around how they protect their users, after all, which rings pretty hollow when they allow apps like these to exist on their platform. Shows how much Apple really cares about your safety! These kinds of apps do not exist on the App Store, and are absolutely impossible on iOS outside the realm of security firms and black hats with zero days. Not sure what you're talking about here. Of course with physical access to the device, almost anything is possible. But the key issue here is Google allowing these things to fester on the Play store.
  - saagarjha 3y ago
    Disclaimer: Google pays me to work on this. They do not pay me to talk about it online. Stalkerware does exist on the App Store. The specific things that are possible differ on each platform (for example, getting access to calls and texts is a lot more involved on iOS and most apps will just let you unlock the device and access it directly instead) but there is plenty of potential for abuse on both platforms. In many ways the model is better on iOS with regards to these kinds of things, but we regularly deal with victims that are in situations where there does not exist a platform that I am aware of that can effectively stop stalkerware completely.
    - TechBro8615 3y ago
      Can you link to an example of a stalkerware app on iOS?
      - aaomidi 3y ago
        On iOS this is possible through management profiles. People use these as parental control apps: For example: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/parental-control-app-ourpact/id954029412 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/parental-control-app-ourpact/i... This even allows you to live view a screen. Apple doesn’t really tell you that you have a management profile setup.
        ylk 3y ago
        I thought emergency reset is supposed to protect you from abusive people but I skimmed the support article and it seems like emergency reset does not remove management profiles: https://support.apple.com/en-asia/guide/personal-safety/ips2aad835e1/web https://support.apple.com/en-asia/guide/personal-safety/ips2... I guess it’s hard to balance, because a company probably doesn’t want their employees uninstalling MDM profiles.
        jeroenhd 3y ago
        > I guess it’s hard to balance, because a company probably doesn’t want their employees uninstalling MDM profiles. I don't really understand why you would need technical measures for that. Surely a disconnected phone would quickly be noticed, and appropriate action can be taken by the business itself?

Zambyte 3y ago

Google doesn't care about your privacy and security. Neither does Apple. The difference is that Apple sees iPhones that have been sold as their property. So does Google, but to a lesser extent right now.

jeroenhd 3y ago

This has nothing to do with Google. Stalkerware exists for all common platforms (Android, iOS, macOS, Windows). I'm sure there's a tool out there that works on Linux too, but the dozens of stalkerware victims running Linux probably aren't worth the investment. Personally, I blame Apple with its supposed "safe" walled garden more for the many stalkerware products than Android where the ability to install apps from third parties exists. Their whole walled garden shtick revolves around how they protect their users, after all, which rings pretty hollow when they allow apps like these to exist on their platform. Shows how much Apple really cares about your safety!

ramesh31 3y ago
> Personally, I blame Apple with its supposed "safe" walled garden more for the many stalkerware products than Android where the ability to install apps from third parties exists. Their whole walled garden shtick revolves around how they protect their users, after all, which rings pretty hollow when they allow apps like these to exist on their platform. Shows how much Apple really cares about your safety! These kinds of apps do not exist on the App Store, and are absolutely impossible on iOS outside the realm of security firms and black hats with zero days. Not sure what you're talking about here. Of course with physical access to the device, almost anything is possible. But the key issue here is Google allowing these things to fester on the Play store.
- saagarjha 3y ago
  Disclaimer: Google pays me to work on this. They do not pay me to talk about it online. Stalkerware does exist on the App Store. The specific things that are possible differ on each platform (for example, getting access to calls and texts is a lot more involved on iOS and most apps will just let you unlock the device and access it directly instead) but there is plenty of potential for abuse on both platforms. In many ways the model is better on iOS with regards to these kinds of things, but we regularly deal with victims that are in situations where there does not exist a platform that I am aware of that can effectively stop stalkerware completely.
  - TechBro8615 3y ago
    Can you link to an example of a stalkerware app on iOS?
    - aaomidi 3y ago
      On iOS this is possible through management profiles. People use these as parental control apps: For example: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/parental-control-app-ourpact/id954029412 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/parental-control-app-ourpact/i... This even allows you to live view a screen. Apple doesn’t really tell you that you have a management profile setup.
      - ylk 3y ago
        I thought emergency reset is supposed to protect you from abusive people but I skimmed the support article and it seems like emergency reset does not remove management profiles: https://support.apple.com/en-asia/guide/personal-safety/ips2aad835e1/web https://support.apple.com/en-asia/guide/personal-safety/ips2... I guess it’s hard to balance, because a company probably doesn’t want their employees uninstalling MDM profiles.
        jeroenhd 3y ago
        > I guess it’s hard to balance, because a company probably doesn’t want their employees uninstalling MDM profiles. I don't really understand why you would need technical measures for that. Surely a disconnected phone would quickly be noticed, and appropriate action can be taken by the business itself?