4 ms·

This is a fairly common scenario for defense attorneys. I needed a lawyer for a misdemeanor charge (cop was having a bad day, the other cops that arrived on th

This is a fairly common scenario for defense attorneys. I needed a lawyer for a misdemeanor charge (cop was having a bad day, the other cops that arrived on the scene seemed like they would have let me off with a warning but it was not their call). I was certainly guilty by the letter of the law and had no defense but the lawyer I was referred to from a friend of a friend negotiated with the prosecution and I plead guilty to a civil ordinance violation for disturbing the peace (basically a traffic ticket). He was able to do that because he knew what to bargain for based off of similar cases in my state. However, if it doesn’t get worked out pre-trial, that negotiation process still happens in the court room. When I met my lawyer, he mentioned a recent case he handled where the defendant had committed murder. There was no question that he did it, but the lawyer was proud that he was able to convince the court that his defendant was not of sound mind, which was the difference between going untreated and spending twenty-to-life in a state prison or spending that time getting treatment in a mental ward. While the latter isn’t exactly a cushy place to be, it is certainly better than being mentally unstable in gen pop.

voz_ 3y ago
Strong disagree. Murderers should be locked up, and the not-of-sound-mind defense is a weak excuse, and too often looked towards as a nice clean way to get away with murder.
- vosper 3y ago
  I'm pretty sure they were locked up, but in a mental ward getting treatment. There are mental wards that are as secure as prison.
  - FireBeyond 3y ago
    There absolutely are. I work as a paramedic and among other things we have a contract with the state run secure mental health facility which has people who are civilly committed, but also people who have been adjudged not fit to stand trial. It's also not entirely easy to get found not fit to stand trial - it's not just you and your lawyer and a friendly psychiatrist - the prosecution has the right to call its own mental health professionals and they are required to have access to the defendant, and more.
- cryptochamorro 3y ago
  I disagree. That no nuance stuff does exactly what you are wanting to avoid. Aside from that, the law must take into consideration one’s ability to reason because that is the method in which a jury finds facts.. based on reasonability. You wouldn’t convict someone who suffered from a mental handicap to a punishment that was equal to someone who did the same with full faculties, right?
- HWR_14 3y ago
  Being locked up because you are insane and a threat to other is being locked up. The difference is there is no need to keep you in jail for a set amount of time as a deterrent. They keep you in the institution until you have been declared sane. Which could be much less than the jail term for a similar crime or until you die. You probably have "not of sound mind" and "temporary insanity" confused.
- rcxdude 3y ago
  It's not a good plan to try for an insanity defense if you're of sound mind: being incarcerated due to an insanity plea is often indefinite and frequently in worse conditions than being in prison.

voz_ 3y ago

Strong disagree. Murderers should be locked up, and the not-of-sound-mind defense is a weak excuse, and too often looked towards as a nice clean way to get away with murder.

vosper 3y ago
I'm pretty sure they were locked up, but in a mental ward getting treatment. There are mental wards that are as secure as prison.
- FireBeyond 3y ago
  There absolutely are. I work as a paramedic and among other things we have a contract with the state run secure mental health facility which has people who are civilly committed, but also people who have been adjudged not fit to stand trial. It's also not entirely easy to get found not fit to stand trial - it's not just you and your lawyer and a friendly psychiatrist - the prosecution has the right to call its own mental health professionals and they are required to have access to the defendant, and more.
cryptochamorro 3y ago
I disagree. That no nuance stuff does exactly what you are wanting to avoid. Aside from that, the law must take into consideration one’s ability to reason because that is the method in which a jury finds facts.. based on reasonability. You wouldn’t convict someone who suffered from a mental handicap to a punishment that was equal to someone who did the same with full faculties, right?
HWR_14 3y ago
Being locked up because you are insane and a threat to other is being locked up. The difference is there is no need to keep you in jail for a set amount of time as a deterrent. They keep you in the institution until you have been declared sane. Which could be much less than the jail term for a similar crime or until you die. You probably have "not of sound mind" and "temporary insanity" confused.
rcxdude 3y ago
It's not a good plan to try for an insanity defense if you're of sound mind: being incarcerated due to an insanity plea is often indefinite and frequently in worse conditions than being in prison.