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To try to catch hacker news up to the situation: David Grusch, A former NGA intelligence officer has recently come forward with allegations that there are waiv

To try to catch hacker news up to the situation: David Grusch, A former NGA intelligence officer has recently come forward with allegations that there are waived, unacknowledged Special Access Programs that are reverse engineering non-human technology, and that these programs have not had proper congressional oversight. Why should we give him the time of day? Well, he was one of the highest intelligence officials in our nation. He was read in to over 2000 special access programs, and he gave Biden the presidential daily briefing for the NGA on a daily basis. He's given 11 hours of testimony under oath to the congressional intelligence committees; giving program names, locations, and people working on those "rogue" programs. These allegations are incredibly serious. There are only two outcomes from here: either he is lying and this is some big government psy-op, or he is telling the truth. Either way, congress should investigate and get to the bottom of this. Marco Rubio amplifying Grusch's allegations by confirming that other whistleblowers who have first hand knowledge of the programs have also testified to the fact. Here is the article that broke the story: https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/ https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-re... Here is the interview he did with Ross Coulthart: https://www.newsnationnow.com/space/ufo/we-are-not-alone-the-ufo-whistleblower-speaks/ https://www.newsnationnow.com/space/ufo/we-are-not-alone-the...

behrlich 3y ago
> These allegations are incredibly serious. There are only two outcomes from here: either he is lying and this is some big government psy-op, or he is telling the truth. Either way, congress should investigate and get to the bottom of this. This is what is so frustrating about everyone dismissing this so off hand. Don't you at least want to get to the bottom of how large numbers of high ranking government officials have been convinced - or convinced to lie to us about - the US government being in possession of craft. _Something_ is happening. Why don't we find out what?
- AlexandrB 3y ago
  Was _something_ happening with "Havana Syndrome"? In the end, doesn't seem so. In both cases Occam's Razor points to a bunch of people simply being fooled by their senses and doubling down on that time and time again. Meanwhile we'll waste a whole bunch of money chasing phantoms.
  - likeabbas 3y ago
    The Havana syndrome stuff is still highly classified. From what I’ve heard, there’s something going on there.
    - Jolter 3y ago
      That's the problem with the Havana Syndrome -- it's all "from what I've heard", AKA hearsay. There is simply no scientifically credible evidence of any malfeasance. The fact that the government agencies have not come out outright and said as much, can be easily explained by the fact that they have nothing to gain by debunking it. You can rest assured that there are no longer any CIA agents assigned to investigating the Havana events, because they have long ago concluded that there is no substance to the story. They'll never make a press release about such a non-event.
      - likeabbas 3y ago
        Professor Gary Nolan of Stanford doesn’t seem to think Havana syndrome is a “non event” considering he was contacted by the CIA to do brain scans of the victims. I agree it’s frustrating because the entire situation is classified, but this is how the intelligence community works. We can’t show our hands by making reports to the public. I hope one day we can. There is a discussion in congress about trying to change the classification system since the default is to over-classify everything, but we will see if that happens.
        Jolter 3y ago
        I know nothing at all about Gary Nolan of Stanford except what you wrote above, so don’t take the following as disparaging him. That said: it is not difficult to imagine a certain bias towards making an interesting finding, when given such an assignment by the government. The lack of a control group and blinding makes every result of such a scanning study very vulnerable to such biases. Hence, I would advise placing very little weight behind its findings.
        3y ago
542458 3y ago
> There are only two outcomes from here Why are “David is having a very public mental health crisis.” or “David was mistaken about those programs.” not possibilities?
- caladin 3y ago
  FTA: > Rubio told NewsNation that there are others in the intelligence community who have come forward with “firsthand” accounts of UFO hardware. Rubio, a longtime advocate for transparency on the alien issue, claims there are several more intelligence whistleblowers with “high clearances” who have shared similar allegations with the Senate Intelligence Committee.
- likeabbas 3y ago
  They might be possibilities. But, the senate intelligence committee recently passed an amendment to the NDAA 2024 just 3 weeks after Grusch went public to include the following: > The new UAP language (found in Section 1104 of the bill) would require "any person currently or formerly under contract with the Federal Government that has in their possession material or information provided by or derived from the Federal Government relating to unidentified anomalous phenomena that formerly or currently is protected by any form of special access or restricted access" to notify the director of the All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO) within 60 days of enactment, and to provide within 180 days (six months) "a comprehensive list of all non-earth origin or exotic unidentified anomalous phenomena material" possessed and to make it available to the AARO director for "assessment, analysis, and inspection." source: https://douglasjohnson.ghost.io/senate-intelligence-bill-gives-holders-of-non-earth-origin-six-months/ https://douglasjohnson.ghost.io/senate-intelligence-bill-giv... Why would the senate intel committee do that if they didn't believe Grusch's claims?
  - 542458 3y ago
    The United States government also took accusations of satanic sex cults in the US very seriously, funding protection programs, conferences, and research. Turns out that was all the product of flawed investigation, but representatives knew their constituents were concerned and wanted to be seen doing something (or at least wanted to avoid accusations of doing nothing). I believe a similar explanation could apply here.
ftxbro 3y ago
> "There are only two outcomes from here: either he is lying and this is some big government psy-op, or he is telling the truth." Nah there are other outcomes: they might be lying and it's not a big government psy-op, or they might be misinformed or deluded or caught up in a hysteria about things that are neither psy-ops nor the things that they say they are.
- likeabbas 3y ago
  > they might be lying and it's not a big government psy-op Why would he lie to congress under oath? He would go to jail. > deluded or caught up in a hysteria about things that are neither psy-ops nor the things that they say they are. Why would the senators make [this amendment](https://douglasjohnson.ghost.io/senate-intelligence-bill-gives-holders-of-non-earth-origin-six-months/ https://douglasjohnson.ghost.io/senate-intelligence-bill-giv...) to NDAA 2024 just 3 weeks after his allegations went public? The key portions being > "a comprehensive list of all non-earth origin or exotic unidentified anomalous phenomena material" possessed and to make it available to the AARO director for "assessment, analysis, and inspection."
  - ftxbro 3y ago
    I'm not trying to explain why he would lie to congress or why senators do things. I was just giving other options that I think are more likely than the dichotomy that you laid out. If I'm honest your dichotomy reminds me of some evangelists who are like 'either this guy was literally God or so many clergy have been misinformed or lying to an absurdly implausible degree for centuries or millennia, checkmate atheists' I'm not saying you are making that exact argument, but that's how your dichotomy sounds to me.
    - likeabbas 3y ago
      I understand, and I'm trying to explain how your options don't make sense in the context of the senators' recent actions. I take offense to your edit. I'm not being a religious zealot saying God has to exist. If you understood anything about the US security clearance system, you would know that everyone has to undergo a rigorous psychological evaluation every 5 years to keep their Top Secret SCI clearance. You can not be unwell and be an intelligence officer at the level of Grusch. The likelihood of him being mentally unfit for that job and lying under oath to congress about these claims is extremely low. Also, If he is intentionally lying, he will go to jail. All of that plus what the senators have recently done, we have a limited set of options for what could be the case.
tomku 3y ago
The whistleblower's actual bio, from the Debrief article: "At the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, Grusch served as a Senior Intelligence Capabilities Integration Officer, cleared at the Top Secret/Secret Compartmented Information level, and was the agency’s Senior Technical Advisor for Unidentified Aerial Phenomena analysis/Trans-Medium Issues. From 2016 to 2021, he served with the National Reconnaissance Office as Senior Intelligence Officer and led the production of the NRO director’s daily briefing. Grusch was a GS-15 civilian, the military equivalent of a Colonel." He was not even close to "one of the highest intelligence officials in our nation". He was almost certainly not "read into over 2000 special access programs" and there's no credible claim that he ever briefed the President, let alone did it daily. He was a mid-level analyst who specialized in UAPs. He testified to Congress about what he heard and what he believes, and both of those could very easily be wrong without there being a "big government psy-op".
- likeabbas 3y ago
  Explain this to me: Why would the senate intelligence committee pass an amendment to the NDAA 2024 just 3 weeks after Grusch's allegations went public that include the following: > "a comprehensive list of all non-earth origin or exotic unidentified anomalous phenomena material" possessed and to make it available to the AARO director for "assessment, analysis, and inspection." source: https://douglasjohnson.ghost.io/senate-intelligence-bill-gives-holders-of-non-earth-origin-six-months/ https://douglasjohnson.ghost.io/senate-intelligence-bill-giv...
lusus_naturae 3y ago
I want to know how it was ascertained that this technology is "non-human".
- likeabbas 3y ago
  Some of that is divulged in the original article https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/ https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-re...
  - lusus_naturae 3y ago
    > Analysis has determined that the objects retrieved are “of exotic origin (non-human intelligence, whether extraterrestrial or unknown origin) based on the vehicle morphologies and material science testing and the possession of unique atomic arrangements and radiological signatures,” he said. Doesn't this seem like science-fiction driven psyops? I am not a physicist or material scientist, so I would love to be corrected. Per my understanding, molecules from one end of the universe are the same as molecules from another end of the universe. I guess maybe they're doing some kind of element-wise dating or mass spectrometry, but again I am unsure how such an analysis would indicate non-Earth origins. What exactly is meant by "vehicle morphologies"? There are plenty of sci-fi designers who can dream up awesome, ridiculous vehicles that would seem like they're meant to be used by non-humans. I guess I am inclined to assume that these artifacts were placed by adversaries precisely for distracting with psyops. Edit: iirc, these accounts seem inconsistent with Snowden's remark: https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/23/us/edward-snowden-joe-rogan-conspiracies-trnd/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/23/us/edward-snowden-joe-rogan-c... Or I guess "hidden really well". I guess my question is why hide it? Is it really that big a deal?
    - likeabbas 3y ago
      > Doesn't this seem like science-fiction driven psyops? This whole thing is *way* weirder than anything else I’ve ever experienced in my life. This certainly could be one giant psy-op, but then we have to wonder why it would go so deep as to have people testify under oath to congress about it and convince the senators to unanimously pass legislation to force disclosure of “non-earth origin” technology to them. What’s the reason to go this deep just to confuse an adversary? Then again, what if there is something way weirder going on here? Regardless of what the outcome is, I think everyone should be in support of congress trying to get to the bottom of it.

behrlich 3y ago

> These allegations are incredibly serious. There are only two outcomes from here: either he is lying and this is some big government psy-op, or he is telling the truth. Either way, congress should investigate and get to the bottom of this. This is what is so frustrating about everyone dismissing this so off hand. Don't you at least want to get to the bottom of how large numbers of high ranking government officials have been convinced - or convinced to lie to us about - the US government being in possession of craft. _Something_ is happening. Why don't we find out what?

AlexandrB 3y ago
Was _something_ happening with "Havana Syndrome"? In the end, doesn't seem so. In both cases Occam's Razor points to a bunch of people simply being fooled by their senses and doubling down on that time and time again. Meanwhile we'll waste a whole bunch of money chasing phantoms.
- likeabbas 3y ago
  The Havana syndrome stuff is still highly classified. From what I’ve heard, there’s something going on there.
  - Jolter 3y ago
    That's the problem with the Havana Syndrome -- it's all "from what I've heard", AKA hearsay. There is simply no scientifically credible evidence of any malfeasance. The fact that the government agencies have not come out outright and said as much, can be easily explained by the fact that they have nothing to gain by debunking it. You can rest assured that there are no longer any CIA agents assigned to investigating the Havana events, because they have long ago concluded that there is no substance to the story. They'll never make a press release about such a non-event.
    - likeabbas 3y ago
      Professor Gary Nolan of Stanford doesn’t seem to think Havana syndrome is a “non event” considering he was contacted by the CIA to do brain scans of the victims. I agree it’s frustrating because the entire situation is classified, but this is how the intelligence community works. We can’t show our hands by making reports to the public. I hope one day we can. There is a discussion in congress about trying to change the classification system since the default is to over-classify everything, but we will see if that happens.
      - Jolter 3y ago
        I know nothing at all about Gary Nolan of Stanford except what you wrote above, so don’t take the following as disparaging him. That said: it is not difficult to imagine a certain bias towards making an interesting finding, when given such an assignment by the government. The lack of a control group and blinding makes every result of such a scanning study very vulnerable to such biases. Hence, I would advise placing very little weight behind its findings.
        3y ago

542458 3y ago

> There are only two outcomes from here Why are “David is having a very public mental health crisis.” or “David was mistaken about those programs.” not possibilities?

caladin 3y ago
FTA: > Rubio told NewsNation that there are others in the intelligence community who have come forward with “firsthand” accounts of UFO hardware. Rubio, a longtime advocate for transparency on the alien issue, claims there are several more intelligence whistleblowers with “high clearances” who have shared similar allegations with the Senate Intelligence Committee.
likeabbas 3y ago
They might be possibilities. But, the senate intelligence committee recently passed an amendment to the NDAA 2024 just 3 weeks after Grusch went public to include the following: > The new UAP language (found in Section 1104 of the bill) would require "any person currently or formerly under contract with the Federal Government that has in their possession material or information provided by or derived from the Federal Government relating to unidentified anomalous phenomena that formerly or currently is protected by any form of special access or restricted access" to notify the director of the All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO) within 60 days of enactment, and to provide within 180 days (six months) "a comprehensive list of all non-earth origin or exotic unidentified anomalous phenomena material" possessed and to make it available to the AARO director for "assessment, analysis, and inspection." source: https://douglasjohnson.ghost.io/senate-intelligence-bill-gives-holders-of-non-earth-origin-six-months/ https://douglasjohnson.ghost.io/senate-intelligence-bill-giv... Why would the senate intel committee do that if they didn't believe Grusch's claims?
- 542458 3y ago
  The United States government also took accusations of satanic sex cults in the US very seriously, funding protection programs, conferences, and research. Turns out that was all the product of flawed investigation, but representatives knew their constituents were concerned and wanted to be seen doing something (or at least wanted to avoid accusations of doing nothing). I believe a similar explanation could apply here.

ftxbro 3y ago

> "There are only two outcomes from here: either he is lying and this is some big government psy-op, or he is telling the truth." Nah there are other outcomes: they might be lying and it's not a big government psy-op, or they might be misinformed or deluded or caught up in a hysteria about things that are neither psy-ops nor the things that they say they are.

likeabbas 3y ago
> they might be lying and it's not a big government psy-op Why would he lie to congress under oath? He would go to jail. > deluded or caught up in a hysteria about things that are neither psy-ops nor the things that they say they are. Why would the senators make [this amendment](https://douglasjohnson.ghost.io/senate-intelligence-bill-gives-holders-of-non-earth-origin-six-months/ https://douglasjohnson.ghost.io/senate-intelligence-bill-giv...) to NDAA 2024 just 3 weeks after his allegations went public? The key portions being > "a comprehensive list of all non-earth origin or exotic unidentified anomalous phenomena material" possessed and to make it available to the AARO director for "assessment, analysis, and inspection."
- ftxbro 3y ago
  I'm not trying to explain why he would lie to congress or why senators do things. I was just giving other options that I think are more likely than the dichotomy that you laid out. If I'm honest your dichotomy reminds me of some evangelists who are like 'either this guy was literally God or so many clergy have been misinformed or lying to an absurdly implausible degree for centuries or millennia, checkmate atheists' I'm not saying you are making that exact argument, but that's how your dichotomy sounds to me.
  - likeabbas 3y ago
    I understand, and I'm trying to explain how your options don't make sense in the context of the senators' recent actions. I take offense to your edit. I'm not being a religious zealot saying God has to exist. If you understood anything about the US security clearance system, you would know that everyone has to undergo a rigorous psychological evaluation every 5 years to keep their Top Secret SCI clearance. You can not be unwell and be an intelligence officer at the level of Grusch. The likelihood of him being mentally unfit for that job and lying under oath to congress about these claims is extremely low. Also, If he is intentionally lying, he will go to jail. All of that plus what the senators have recently done, we have a limited set of options for what could be the case.

tomku 3y ago

The whistleblower's actual bio, from the Debrief article: "At the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, Grusch served as a Senior Intelligence Capabilities Integration Officer, cleared at the Top Secret/Secret Compartmented Information level, and was the agency’s Senior Technical Advisor for Unidentified Aerial Phenomena analysis/Trans-Medium Issues. From 2016 to 2021, he served with the National Reconnaissance Office as Senior Intelligence Officer and led the production of the NRO director’s daily briefing. Grusch was a GS-15 civilian, the military equivalent of a Colonel." He was not even close to "one of the highest intelligence officials in our nation". He was almost certainly not "read into over 2000 special access programs" and there's no credible claim that he ever briefed the President, let alone did it daily. He was a mid-level analyst who specialized in UAPs. He testified to Congress about what he heard and what he believes, and both of those could very easily be wrong without there being a "big government psy-op".

likeabbas 3y ago
Explain this to me: Why would the senate intelligence committee pass an amendment to the NDAA 2024 just 3 weeks after Grusch's allegations went public that include the following: > "a comprehensive list of all non-earth origin or exotic unidentified anomalous phenomena material" possessed and to make it available to the AARO director for "assessment, analysis, and inspection." source: https://douglasjohnson.ghost.io/senate-intelligence-bill-gives-holders-of-non-earth-origin-six-months/ https://douglasjohnson.ghost.io/senate-intelligence-bill-giv...

lusus_naturae 3y ago

I want to know how it was ascertained that this technology is "non-human".

likeabbas 3y ago
Some of that is divulged in the original article https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/ https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-re...
- lusus_naturae 3y ago
  > Analysis has determined that the objects retrieved are “of exotic origin (non-human intelligence, whether extraterrestrial or unknown origin) based on the vehicle morphologies and material science testing and the possession of unique atomic arrangements and radiological signatures,” he said. Doesn't this seem like science-fiction driven psyops? I am not a physicist or material scientist, so I would love to be corrected. Per my understanding, molecules from one end of the universe are the same as molecules from another end of the universe. I guess maybe they're doing some kind of element-wise dating or mass spectrometry, but again I am unsure how such an analysis would indicate non-Earth origins. What exactly is meant by "vehicle morphologies"? There are plenty of sci-fi designers who can dream up awesome, ridiculous vehicles that would seem like they're meant to be used by non-humans. I guess I am inclined to assume that these artifacts were placed by adversaries precisely for distracting with psyops. Edit: iirc, these accounts seem inconsistent with Snowden's remark: https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/23/us/edward-snowden-joe-rogan-conspiracies-trnd/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/23/us/edward-snowden-joe-rogan-c... Or I guess "hidden really well". I guess my question is why hide it? Is it really that big a deal?
  - likeabbas 3y ago
    > Doesn't this seem like science-fiction driven psyops? This whole thing is *way* weirder than anything else I’ve ever experienced in my life. This certainly could be one giant psy-op, but then we have to wonder why it would go so deep as to have people testify under oath to congress about it and convince the senators to unanimously pass legislation to force disclosure of “non-earth origin” technology to them. What’s the reason to go this deep just to confuse an adversary? Then again, what if there is something way weirder going on here? Regardless of what the outcome is, I think everyone should be in support of congress trying to get to the bottom of it.